The Holy Father on gays and the poor. Clarification of Patmos Island Fathers [appendix interview with John Cavalcoli, ON]
THE HOLY FATHER ON GAY AND POOR. CLARIFICATION OF THE FATHERS OF THE ISLAND OF PATMOS
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"It is deplorable that homosexual persons have been and are the object of violent malice in speech or actions. Such treatment deserves condemnation of the shepherds of the Church, wherever they occur. They reveal a lack of respect for others, endangers the most fundamental principles on which a healthy society. Their dignity of each person must always be respected in word, in action and in law. However, the proper reaction to crimes committed against homosexual persons can not lead in any way claim that the homosexual condition is not disordered " [Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, 1October 1986. Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church on the Pastoral Care of Homosexual Persons, n. 10. See full text WHO]
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Authors
Giovanni Cavalcoli, ON
Ariel S. Levi di Gualdo
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the Holy Father Francis in conversation with reporters on his way back from Armenia
After bubbling point with which the Bishop of Laodicea Combusta has asked the Metro Mayor province of Konya in Anatolia to prevent the parade of gay pride before the ruins of his cathedral church [cf. WHO], the island of Patmos Fathers identified the words of the Supreme Pontiff, with which he wanted to "apologize" to gays, including them among "the poor".
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We understand that in many cases homosexuals They not dealt, and sometimes they are still not treated with the respect due to their human dignity and should therefore be repaired.
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With all due respect to the Vicar of Christ, However, we believe that the Holy Father, in the same circumstances, He would do well to remember together, beyond the subjective mitigating, the objective gravity of the sin of sodomy, avoiding in this way to give rise to any misinterpretation. All this also to avoid the noisy exploitation of his words, that followed, and there was to imagine followed by lobby gay, who wanted to play and then present dishonestly those words as a approvazione and a moral legitimacy of their conduct which remains, for the doctrine and Catholic morality, "Intrinsically disordered" [CF. Catechism of the Catholic Church NN. 2357-2359].
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We report in the appendix to an interview by John Cavalcoli, ON to the online magazine Faith Daily [WHO]
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Father Cavalcoli, the Pope says that the Church must also ask for forgiveness from gays, agree?
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No, I don't see why. The problem is complex. The Pope is the Vicar of Christ on earth for Catholics, progressives and conservatives, It must be respected. But, with equal frankness I say that is losing shots, It has outputs, like this about gays, little explainable, that disturb or at least rattle.
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So what?
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I think that the Pope wanted to say something else, to warn against the risk of a pipeline even verbal too hard and without mercy toward gay and this is right, sometimes it happened. But it should and could associate with that statement a second part in which he remembered the moral gravity of the sin of sodomy, namely achieving the speech. I think that he is deficient in the virtue of prudence, often ambiguous in its statements that can be interpreted in various ways, talks too much and arm, especially bad for someone who is not a master of another language. In some cases it is rude.
Why unwise?
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Because when he speaks he is challenging, his statements do not belong to the 'man in the street or country priest. At certain levels it is good to avoid the superficiality, Because sensitive topics are not addressed in five minutes on 'plane conference that is not the Magisterium and is therefore open to criticism. I would not be in the shoes of the poor Father Lombardi. I worked in the Secretariat of State, and is an asset to be in contact with the Pope. I say that John Paul II was reviewing speeches, was humble and prudent. Bergoglio wants to do everything himself, often he speaks off the cuff makes and breaks as it wants and creates problems, besides the difficulty of interpretation. Humility is needed.
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And the media success?
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Here, too, it's complicated and bad in many ways. If atheists, the Communists and the Freemasons will praise, while many Catholics, progressives and not, have doubts, something is not working, by me, Bergoglio, it shall be understood not to. Many Catholics are worried, There is disorientation. And here there is no bold comparison that he often makes Jesus eating with sinners, Jesus spoke clearly and said yes when yes, not when it is no. Undoubtedly we can not take away from the good that this Pope has, especially in the social ministry, and I do not agree with the accusations of heresy, But there are things that do not go and I think the language, the recklessness and carelessness also theological in some circumstances. He should not speak off the cuff and too, creates mess.
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Sodomy is a sin?
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It is. St. Paul is clear. It is a mortal sin, Catechism stuff and who is in mortal sin if he dies without repentance, go to hell, it is good that even priests and bishops if they put him in the lead and we priests must say what the cost.
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Luther was truly medicine for the Catholic Church?
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Here, too, the same holds true. he could risparmiarsela, I say it with filial devotion and affection.
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He apologizes to gays?
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Because May?
Bruno Volpe
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I believe we must for readers of’ Island know this short interview where P. Horses – with filial devotion and affection – comments on the latest papal utterances:
http://www.lafedequotidiana.it/padre-cavalcoli-quando-parla-a-braccio-papa-francesco-crea-pasticci/
father ariel, I feel having to make excuses if you involuntarily have offended, was absolutely not my intention and I would ask you to consider the word that has wounded in its most benign sense that it is derived from my respect and sympathy towards her. If seeth, I would like to also make use of your experience and availability. Thank you.
As the author of the blog The Hatchet Elia He is precise and often just complaints, but hiding behind anonymity to avoid being – poor mama's boy! – made subject to ostracism clerical, I saw that she insists I address a question of purely legal nature: if you were a magistrate of the Italian Republic asked to give a judgment and to issue a ruling, would do, accepting as evidence crucial to the conviction of the accused, the contents of an anonymous letter?
Because in that case, knows well that half of Italian citizens today would be sentenced to severe prison terms.
Then, if she does not understand what more partners we have been told, not responding on the merits but raising other more personal moods, know that it is free to do so, provided it does not tell us, that we climb on mirrors
Three against one is not worth, I'm with Antonio, although it does not need defenders, He takes shot from just admirably. Rev. Fathers, we lay we know very well not to have your preparation, It is exactly what you expose our concerns. So many of your brother priests have, even Vaticanists:
http://www.rossoporpora.org/rubriche/interviste-a-personalita/608-intervista-aldo-maria-valli-voglio-tanto-bene-al-papa-che.html
A tasty little taste:
“I was surprised however that so many people think that moving critical remarks to the Pope (on issues, I repeat, questionable and not dogmatic) It falls into the forbidden.”
"The good Lord has equipped us to the heart and brain and is pleased if we use them". Moreover, the card. Martini divided the world between "thinking" and "non-thinking". Therefore ...
“a believer, always with the utmost respect, It has not only the right but the duty to ask about anything that is not matter dogmatic, if it considers necessary. Here it is often forgotten that the freedom of criticism relates to the freedom of the lay believer. You can not be a Christian unless in freedom and must be careful to papolatria.”
I thank all the authors of the interventions in response to my comment, accorded me more for the patience, that for the construct! I am accused of defending Don Pusceddu only made me come hearsay, maybe it is not known that there is a video? And I honestly could not find anything untoward as to arouse embarrassment ( to who? )! And the tones and the adjectives used by the Pope against the clergy, I am full of Christian charity? Regarding “the ax” I do not know if it's a religious,priest, or lay, nor I want to say that I do not care to know, but I can say that what he says, not always , but part of his say is I agree! And this helps me! They are in the Church, the Pope is my Pope, because it is the Vicar of Christ, but I do not feel compelled to let me pleasure, or not to recognize in him a danger to our unity and the preservation of the faith! And I challenge anyone ,We have freedom of judgment, who has not at times had some reservations and quickly progress to justify it as they say ” scrambling” ! To those who I believed undeserving of space, this is indeed Christian charity! Greetings and peace to all!
Dear Antonio, She talks about what he does not know, and defends, above all, the indefensible.
it bag. Massimiliano Pusceddu put in embarrassment, also and especially, the so-called priests “Conservatives”, and I am one of these.
His aggressive tone, in some ways insulting, They are not acceptable.
http://www.castedduonline.it/area-vasta/hinterland/36978/don-pusceddu-e-l-omelia-choc-i-gay-meritano-la-morte-video.html
Not so proclamations “victim” who the victim is not, only to have read, around the internet, the reports, do not correspond to reality, written by the usual so-called “traditionalists” on their blog.
Don Antonio Piras
I'd be tempted to blame the father Ariel, or the Isle of Patmos preparation, which publishes this kind of comments.
Maybe they do it to show that not only publish praise and appreciation, but I wonder: that is to speak with those who show they do not want to reason? E’ right, give it space? Because in my opinion it is not acceptable, give space to those who defend the reasons of an anonymous coward, and give the “dashing” to those who live totally in the open.
… “fiery character”?
Antonio, but she thinks that Ariel's father is a “dashing” impulsive?
Either she can not read or can not read, why prudence is the basis of all his writings.
If you want to give feedback on a “dashing”, very impulsive and even improvident, then he must take it with the Sardinian priest Fr Massimiliano Pusceddu, she defends, and who used shapes and tones consonant with the Christian charity and to talk about a Catholic priest.
And I am having said that I do not want to go beyond …
We are not a large multinational company governed by a president clumsy, the Church is the mystical body of Christ, of which he is head and we are living members; and in fact, for the mystery of faith and grace it is governed by the Holy Spirit of God.
If she comes out from the idea of “multinational company” and enter this “mystical body”, Also enter the order of ideas that the grace of God can enlighten the children of his people and the living members of the body in many ways, making him meet the right confessor, the right spiritual director, the Christian right essay, the right readings …
Everyone has access to God's grace because it is poured on all, without distinction of any, just search for grace and open to the grace, closing and not reading – for instance – Pages catastrophic Christians and pseudo-theologians praticoni that with every breath of the Holy Father trigger fires and flames, bringing great harm to the Church and its faithful, especially to the simplest.
Indeed, to address legitimate criticism pastoral work of the Holy Father, are needed:
1. faith and holy fear of God;
2. devout respect for the Successor of Peter;
3. wisdom, science and knowledge.
dear antonio.
I speak as someone who has always exposed, with your face and your name and who always paid for everything at full price, at high price, often high.
Therefore, more than 'moderate' I have mine "fiery character", is some other, which should moderate his cowardice.
And cowardice is the most popular sport in the clergy, just think avalanches strictly anonymous letters that arrive each day at the Congregation for the Clergy and the Congregation for Bishops.
When I complained at the time very serious situations that if not stopped in time it would be turned into moral scandals deeply damaging to the public image of the Church [among many of my articles only see this WHO], I personally went with my face and my name at the Prefect of the Congregation for the Clergy – who at the time of those events it was the Cardinal Mauro Piacenza – and not only, I handed my paper, but I have also made clear: “"And if faced with this situation do not act, I hope that tomorrow, before the scandal, no one say … We knew nothing! Because in that case I will give public notice that I had been warned well, in a detailed and time for ».
A priest who speaks and who denounces hidden behind anonymity [as the owner of the blog The Hatchet Elia, WHO], it's a shame priest, that she likes or does not like, regardless of content, We are given that we priests are called in a special way to pay our actions and our words in defense of the truth, even at the cost of life, even at the cost of an entire existence of ostracism towards us …
Moreover, addressing me in this way and with similar invitations, know, if none had realized, she fails seriously respect to a priest who has always risked everything there was to take risks at the present and for the future, because maybe she did not even know how and what, certain ecclesiastical, the truth, you make her pay for life.
I apologize, I associate myself with the previous comment. E’ it possible that we may need to be clarified there ” that is’ that the pope wanted to actually say” if that were to seize exactly the thought? And all the hundreds of thousands of people who do not have access to this possibility ', than good will derive? With estimates, Antonio.
Dear father Ariel, the poor priests coming out of the closet, like Don Pusceddu ( which then has done nothing what’ that all priests do or should do ,read the Scriptures, although targeted!) They incur the ire of the servants, not of Christ, but the logic of the world, of the signs of the times , as they usually call with elegance, the ills that have nothing elegant! Not all resistances , if you truly want to resist, you do uncovered, under penalty of immediate silencing! I wish she was addressing more’ to content, moderating his fiery character, the writings of the priest in question that side issues, that detract from the invaluable contribution referred doctrinal and’ capable and I expect. E’ why I follow! I expect his account, Praised be Jesus’ Christ! Antonio
Dear Reader.
We have already explained in the past that the Holy Father, with that phrase made incomplete by journalists who have turned it into "who am I to judge a gay», He wanted to imply one thing doctrinally obvious: “Who am I to judge the deep consciousness of a man that God alone can read and then judge”.
E’ that today, with the times we live, you should never take anything for granted.
Repeatedly, Furthermore, I complained and wrote that the Roman Pontiff, speaking extemporaneously with journalists – with whom I would do well in my opinion not to speak – He expressed in so unhappy, misleading and vague, concepts which then created evil interpretations and sometimes even bewilderment.
All analyzes can be found in my articles written and signed.
I then opened the link you sent me, about which I point out that the author of the text writes these exact words:
"Is it possible that there is not a bishop or a cardinal who stand up to say: enough? If it misses out the diocese or reputation, It will be free to go around to visit the faithful Catholics who groan like sheep without a shepherd " [WHO].
Good, rather … well an emeritus accident!
Indeed, if you go in the blog of this character who writes these words, in its presentation page [WHO] You find that it is an anonymous priest who does not want to reveal his identity, But he claims that bishops and cardinals should launch fires and flames, so determined and courageous, it costs for them as well lose the diocese and reputation.
Scusi, dear Reader, but she is so naive and naive to give credit to those who have not even the priestly manly attributes to get involved with your name and surname, assuming it is truly a priest seriously?
Think about … us reflect.
Dear fathers island everyone remembers the uproar that aroused the same claims made exactly three years ago when returning from Brazil say’ : “is one and the’ gay and seek the Lord and good will’ Who are we to judge?”
But how do you not realize that even the most egregious nonsense shoot dall'innominabile character are well designed and calibrated according to a precise plan of controlled demolition ?
http://www.lamadredellachiesa.it/la-sagra-delle-corbellerie-di-don-elia/