With the Queen of Heaven who rejoices in the resurrection of Christ, we rejoice at the false Madonna of Medjugorie who fled the coronavirus pandemic

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WITH THE QUEEN OF HEAVEN WHO PLAYS FOR THE RESURRECTION OF CHRIST, WE REJOICE THE FALSE MADONNA OF MEDJUGORIE ESCAPE BEFORE THE CORONAVIRUS PANDEMY

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The coronavirus pandemic was needed to expose these pseudo-visionaries who for over thirty years have been abusing popular credulity with banal and repetitive messages given by this self-styled postman Madonna, while they reaped business and got rich, while leading lives far from Christian. Or to put it in one example: just think of the husband of one of the visionaries who gave birth to a daughter with her lover, after having built a couple of hotels with his wife in constant contact with this postman Madonna. And it does not appear that the postman Madonna ever told her: “Dear daughter, try to get your husband back, before I get into some bad trouble, because it would be detrimental to the credibility of the whole market that you have set up!”.

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Author
Ariel S. Levi Gualdo

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debates on the phenomenon of Medjugorie a Straight and Reverse

(D)urante the Triduo Pasquale I didn't go around television studios, as on social some wrote. Connected from my home I attended the program Straight and Reverse then aired on Holy Thursday [episode of 9 April WHO starting at the minute 02:30:00]. Thus, at the gates of Easter, we went back to discussing the Holy Masses celebrated without the presence of the faithful in this pandemic period, with us priests committed to offering suffrages for the souls of the dead and pleading for God's mercy for the living and especially for the sick [see also the episode of 26 March, WHO by the minute 02:05:15].

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During that televised debate I fought with the journalist Paolo Brosio, with whom I had previously discussed in another episode animating myself on the speech of Our Lady of Medjugorie [episode of 5 March WHO by the minute 02:09:45]. Now, both as regards the suspension of the sacred public liturgies and as regards the false Madonna of the self-styled seers of Medjugorie, I wish to clarify what cannot be clarified in a television broadcast. Indeed, if under this program or any other, start a philosophical discourse, metaphysical and theological, the conductor should interrupt me. Let it be clear that I myself, if I conducted a transmission like that of my friend Paolo Del Debbio, I would not hesitate to interrupt a guest, if he took the bribe to certain very specialized speeches. Already in the past I explained in an article of mine what are the rules of a great television company that lives and stands on advertising and listening [see WHO]. So, who participates in certain programs, must pass within short spaces, with simple and immediate language, some messages, but no more than this is possible.

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Dispelling all’areopago with the Athenians, what style and language the Blessed Apostle Paul used? A language they understand, as evidenced by his speech [cf. At 17, 22-34]. Definitely, as a great communicator he was, we can deduce that he combined an appropriate oratory style with a gesture suitable for that place and for that audience, both Greeks were influenced by the culture of their theater, to body language, to the tone of voice and so on.

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In these days of lay catto-schizophrenia, the topic “incontestable” of justification for those who oppose the suspension of sacred public celebrations is that «… you can go shopping in supermarkets but you can't go to Sunday Mass ». In this way we try to say that for a Christian the spiritual goods should be higher than the material ones and that for man it should be more important to save his immortal soul, instead of saving your corruptible body in this world. We postpone the fact that the immortal soul is enclosed in the mortal body and that the Church, after the cessation of persecutions against Christians of the first centuries, he founded hospitals and hospitalizations for the sick, elderly and needy, what this previously explained in my other articles [see, WHO, WHO], but as we know, there is no worse deaf person than anyone who does not want to hear …

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… according to this incorrect definition given by Paolo Brosio, who in this made himself the spokesman of a widespread feeling, the Church would bow to materialism and the principles of utilitarianism, therefore to the logic of this world. Needless to say, for me a priest it is unacceptable for a lay Catholic, in the context of a public broadcast that reaches millions of listeners, you contest an entire episcopal college on the basis of “I feel … I think … I lived …”. If therefore I am present I have the place to defend the bishops and the measures they have taken, because they are the successors of the Blessed Apostles and the Pastors of the Church, not the “I feel … I think … I lived …” of the emotional Paolo Brosio. Of course: it would be absurd to deny - and especially from a subject like me - that a sad and large slice of clergy has fallen for some decades into a doctrinal crisis that has generated a frightening moral crisis. Nor could I ever deny that such a pathology is the result of the worst modernist heresies that have penetrated the Church for decades to its highest levels. I can therefore denounce the mediocrity and pastoral inadequacies of our bleak shepherds - something I have done often and severely with books and articles [see WHO] —, but I would never question their apostolic authority and obedience to them in any case for a single moment, even to bishops burdened by the worst pastoral limitations, doctrinal and moral.

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Paolo Brosio's reasoning is therefore false because it contradicts above all the basic logical and metaphysical principles of Deposit of Faith. We explain and clarify everything: it is true that spiritual goods are superior to material goods, but they are just because of a higher order, which the Holy Fathers and Doctors of the Church teach us, from Sant’Agostino to San Tommaso d’Aquino. Therefore these two goods, material and spiritual, they cannot be put on the same level, less than ever compared, until reaching a true aberration which constitutes the worst contempt for logic and metaphysics, that is, to contrast supermarkets and churches, or say that you can go to the tobacconist's to buy cigarettes but not to church to receive Holy Communion. To these aberrant and illogical theses on an exquisitely metaphysical level, accusations are added to the Italian government and to what many now define as "the Italian Episcopal Conference serves political power".

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The fideistic-spiritualist thesis of Paolo Brosio, he ends up falling back and drowning in that bitter materialism that he would like to condemn in the name of a faith that is not such, but that is only a fideism from which a magical-utilitarian concept of the sacraments of grace is generated. It is not by chance, the great gateway to materialism, often it is that false faith animated by emotional and irrational devotionism. While faith requires reason and reason requires faith, as a school head teacher taught, the Holy Doctor of the Church Anselmo d'Aosta.

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Maybe I get angry with Paolo Brosio because he dislikes me? Never! I feel tenderness for him and I hope that in his error he is animated by good intentions, not because he too, like the characters we will talk about below, between conversions and talking madonnas its market has been created. Above all, I would like to be able to help him both as a priest and as a theologian. If I got angry, it's because he damages the souls of simple people, however, in a moment of great confusion, using the notoriety and public visibility it has. For this, I yelled at him.

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Then apply the logic “You can go to the supermarket and in tobacconists but not at Mass », it means applying a lower logic to a higher order metaphysical reality than, as such, consequently it has superior resources, starting from the omnipotence of God. This way of reasoning is grossly illogical to the point that it would make all the hostile to religiosity pale, from Tito Lucrezio Caro to Karl Marx who would comment: “Neither had we ever gone that far!”.

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These aberrant concepts come to life when emotional-fideists, the when theologi fai-da-te they speak of the Church and sacraments without being animated by the faith that transcends, but moved by the subjective-emotional element, thus ending up in forms of fetishism. At that point the sacraments change into something magical, superstitious, but above all as a materialist and utilitarian, or worse in a right due. What this I think I can say, if, as I may delude myself, I have really learned something about sacramental dogmatics and the history of dogma, but above all as a person who has received training from skilled masters for years and years, which are indispensable for an authentic journey of faith, then proceed to theological speculations, but above all to grow in the experience of authentic faith.

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In front of the absurd "logic" based on the workhorse of certain irrational emotions: “You let us go grocery shopping … you can go to tobacconists to buy cigarettes … but don't go to Mass, which is far more important!», San Tommaso Aquino, which was also nicknamed the dumb ox, would have screamed much more than me, roughly like when he tried to set fire to his monumental work screaming: «Everything is straw, everything is straw!», after having had a vision and thus perceived more closely the mystery of God.

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In his disarming ignorance Paolo Brosio does not even know what it is fthe catholic nor what is a path of authentic conversion, to the point of getting in “contraposition” with an entire Episcopal College that has decided to suspend public liturgical celebrations during this pandemic period, beginning in the transmission of the 9 April: «… I absolutely don't agree!». Well we must remind Paolo Brosio that bishops and priests, however unworthy sinners, received by mystery of grace a mandate which proceeds by supernatural order and which crosses the squalid and immoral miseries of our human persons, up to often making us even the worst scandals. Christ was given to us to lead the People of God, not to the People of God sent to guide his Shepherds. It is not by chance, in the previous episode, twice I reminded him: "… I'm a minister in sacred and from the Church I received the precise mandate to teach, sanctify and guide the People of God, you as a layman, what mandate you received from the Church?» [episode of 5 March WHO, minute 02:09:45]. It follows therefore that Paolo Brosio, who is an emotional-madonnolatra-fideista, he doesn't even know what obedience to faith is, which prejudices the true Christian experience in him, because his being is completely folded on the emotional “I feel … I think … I lived …”, ergo what I feel, I think and I lived is authentic faith and, anyone who dares to contradict me, even if it were a bishop, a priest or theologian who knows something about it, is an enemy of “my” faith.

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Within the perverse logic described so far it happens that, anyone who does not accept the apparitions and messages given to the self-styled seers by the self-styled Madonna of Medjugorie, he is a blasphemer, starting from all the Bosnian bishops who have always opposed the authenticity of these apparitions. It is not by chance, always in the first of these television debates I had the 5 March, Paolo Brosio came to the point of defaming the late Bishop of Mostar, S. AND. Mons. Pavao Žanić [1918-2000] accusing him of being an emissary of the old communist regime. It is a false slander put around by the fanatic fanatics of this false Madonna who appeared on command, as that Bishop said shortly after the beginning of the alleged apparitions and as the Bishops of that region repeat today, who never believed in the authenticity of the apparitions, continuing to express unanimously in the following three decades with negative judgments, starting from the current Bishop of the Diocese of Mostar, S. AND. Mons. Ratko Perić, than in a relationship in defense of its predecessor, insolent by fanatics of Paolo Brosio's ream, in very recent times, in 2017, he sternly states:

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«It is not worthy of the “fortune tellers” do, as they have done since the early days of “appearances”, very disturbing pronouncements, that do not correspond to the truth but deceive the faithful " [See text in Italian translation on the official website of the Diocese of Mostar, WHO].

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From all this it follows that the consequence of fideism is fanaticization, which can reach the most extreme forms: the demonization of the opponent and the destruction of his credibility. To get an idea just read what they spilled on me on social media [see WHO], including people who live on the Medjugorie market and who blame me for what I have never said, without ever taking care to read what I wrote with theological and ecclesiological precision on the subject of this phenomenon, which I don't believe in and which I am free not to believe until the Church tells me otherwise [see WHO].

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Paolo Brosio would have become authentically Christian, but above all he would have really converted, if instead of the bananas of the self-styled seers of Medjugorie he had listened to the pagan Aristotle, whose thinking, together with that of the pagan Plato, it was then used as a tool by the great Holy Fathers of the Church to speculate on the arcane mysteries of God and on the Incarnation of the Word of God made man. Indeed, to authentic paths of faith, the Aristotelian law principle is applied which is "reason devoid of passion". Vale a dire: if we are not free from human passions or humors, we cannot transcend, always remaining within those limits which constitute an insurmountable brake so that the arcane mysteries of faith can be penetrated, proceeding through reason: fides et ratio.

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When I screamed that the Madonna of Medjugorie has finally fled after thirty years of self-styled theaters fortune tellers, it was only to go to the heart of the problem, transmitting a concept through a hyperbole typical of Pauline preaching, making it understandable to the public that followed from home, explaining animatedly that for the first time in the history of the Church we had a Madonna who escaped during a pandemic. In this way the so-called Madam has widely contradicted the entire Mariology, because the intercession of the Virgin Mary is attributed to the sudden cessation of the great plague of 1347, the churches built in the following years prove it, for the most part dedicated as a sign of gratitude to Mater Dei. And today, medical historians and virologists, have not been able to explain how that pandemic stopped suddenly after exterminating about half of the European population. Can you imagine the Madonna who in 1571 had fled during the battle of Lepanto when the Muslims arrived? Instead, precisely at his intercession, the victory of the Holy League is attributed, to the point that the Holy Pontiff Pius V instituted the feast of Santa Maria delle Vittorie, recognizing that that victory was due to the powerful intercession of the Mater Dei

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The coronavirus pandemic was needed to expose these pseudo-visionaries who for over thirty years have been abusing popular credulity with banal and repetitive messages given by this self-styled postman Madonna, while they reaped business and got rich, while leading lives far from Christian. Or to put it in one example: just think of the husband of one of the visionaries who gave birth to a daughter with her lover, after having built a couple of hotels with his wife in constant contact with this postman Madonna. And it does not appear that the postman Madonna ever told her: “Dear daughter, try to get your husband back, before I get into some bad trouble, because it would be detrimental to the credibility of the whole market that you have set up!”. Honestly, I don't know if her husband is a lover and her lover, the child, they called her Immaculate in honor of the Blessed Virgin, so I stop at this example without going any further, about these characters on which Paolo Brosio built his faith after a dazzling conversion that, I repeat, it was nothing more than an emotional movement to be analyzed in the psychiatric setting, more than in light of the great conversions of history that have taken place in the many Shauls of Tarsus, Aurelio di Tagaste or Ignazio di Loyola who have traveled the history of the Church.

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If we want to make a speech of pure spirituality enough to ask: people who for thirty years have really been talking to the Blessed Virgin Mary, it is possible that they have the time and desire to do business, to build villas, to open hotels, to have husbands who are having fun with lovers and so on? Earlier I mentioned San Tommaso d'Aquino that he was about to incinerate his monumental QUESTION after having had only a small hint of what is the divine dimension. Too many other similar cases dot the history of the Church, including Saints and Saints who were to be forced to feed, because they were able to stay for days without eating and drinking. Above all, most of them, after having visions and apparitions, so after only having a little taste of eternal bliss, they almost always died shortly afterwards, other than to devote himself to business and the pursuit of the good life!

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Let's start upstream. Following the first alleged apparitions of the 1981 the first official declaration of the Episcopal Conference of the former Yugoslavia took place: after ten years of study the bishops unanimously decreed that this was not a supernatural event. Rather than intervene and immediately put up some posts, the Holy See let the phenomenon go on without any official response, assuming more and more the characteristics of a real parallel religion. Twenty years after that first response, theThe Supreme Pontiff Benedict XVI established the 17 March 2010 an international Commission for the study of this phenomenon. In 2014, under the pontificate of Francis I, the Commission completed its studies and came to admit, among other things, that the self-styled seers had an ambiguous relationship with money and had emerged from the study and analysis of their people, evident spiritual deficiencies:

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«The witnesses of the supernatural sign originally addressed to them, they now actually have a somewhat ambiguous relationship with money, but, rather than being on the side of immorality, it is located on the side of the personal structure, often devoid of solid discernment and consistent orientation » […] «They lacked a reliable and continuous spiritual guide, during these thirty years. There are, If anything, many clues to spiritual protagonists exhibited and pastoral relationships missed »

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On one of the self-styled seers in particular the Commission points out:

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«It reaches its peak in the case of Ivan Dragicevic, whose continuous meetings and conferences on the phenomenon of Medjugorje seem to be his only work and support. He also lied several times and is also less credible in the way he talks about his experiences with the Gospa ».

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The Commission believed that the first seven appearances occurred in the early eighties of the twentieth century could be authentic, but not those of the subsequent ones that would have occurred over the past thirty years, rather highlighting the progressive trivialization of the content and form of the messages communicated daily. Having said that, it should be clarified: those who rejoice stating that the Church approved the first seven apparitions, or lie, or are ignorant. The opinion given by a merely consultative commission charged with the study, it is not a recognition by the Church, that has never been to date. For now, there has only been the outcome of a study on which the Church, through the supreme authority of the Supreme Pontiff, will have to express themselves.

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Some consortium of Medjugorean fanatics proceed illogically through the emotional element combined with the total upheaval of the facts, this is typical of fanatic and fanatic psychologies, giving commissions, or to precautionary or control decisions, rank of indisputable recognition by the Church. Not only - as we have just said -, the Study Commission did not recognize the authenticity of anything, because there is worse: when the Commission presented the outcome of its work to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, this competent department judged the outcome of the work affected by superficiality and too accommodating towards the Medjugorie phenomenon. That counter-report from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith was so severe that the Supreme Pontiff decided to seek further advice from a group of theologians whom he trusted. That said: the leaders of certain fanatic strings, I am perhaps able to show an official identification document sealed by the Roman Pontiff? Because this is the central point on which i fanatic fanatics of the parallel religion medjugoriana supersede: where is the official act by which the Church, through the august person of the Roman Pontiff, declares the phenomenon authentic? Where is the document with the pronouncement of the Church: where is it?

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A quel point, the Medjugorian fanatic fanatics proceed to upset the facts and to confer, for example to administrative acts of pure control, rank of approval for the phenomenon. Let's see how, but first let's recap that: provided that the commission established by the Church he has never recognized these three decades of apparitions and continuous messages, however, not being in his powers; given that the commission had to embarrassingly admit the disturbing "relationship of the visionaries with the money"; given that the commission had to admit the poor spiritual formation of the pseudo-seers; given that the commission has denied any authenticity to apparitions and messages that have lasted for three decades; since the Church has never given any official recognition so far … that said, here is Paolo Brosio, following the typical pattern of fanaticization played on the total distortion of reality, always in the episode of 5 March attempted to pass the sending of an Archbishop to Medjugorie as apostolic visitor as an approval of the Supreme Pontiff Francis. But it is precisely a total distortion of the real data: S. AND. Mons. Henryk Franciszek Hoser, Emeritus Archbishop of Warsaw, he was sent by the Supreme Pontiff as an apostolic visitor to check what is happening in that place, as I replied with a short joke in the episode of Straight and Reverse of 5 March to Paolo Brosio who, however, ranging on this issue out of the real - and I hope it is for ignorant good faith -, tried to pass the Archbishop apostolic visitor as a "sign of approval". The reality is quite different: as soon as he arrived in Medjugorie, the apostolic visitor forbade first of all that any kind of direct or indirect reference to the messages given in a continuous stream by the homilies and sacred celebrations Madam to the pseudo-seers, except for immediate suspension from the faculties of being able to exercise the sacred priestly ministry in that place of priests who had not adhered to that provision. Before these facts and much more: what certain fanatic and fanatic characters have to tell us, included Radio Maria directed by Father Livio Fanzaga, about our great lawyer, our powerful source of intercessions with God, “miserably escaped” when the coronavirus occurs? [about Father Livio Fanzaga see my previous article, WHO]. It should be obvious to even the most limited people in this world that my expression on “Madonna on the run” it all refers to self-styled seers, displaced and finally vanquished by an unexpected pandemic from Covid-19. But fanatics are such precisely because they refuse to open their eyes and to reason even in the face of the most evident elements that deny the object of their fanaticism, on the contrary, as I have just shown, they take the elements of real denial, they turn them upside down, they falsify them and then even present them as approvals. In this way, of always, the psychologies of fanatics fallen into those forms of religious fundamentalism that make them completely devoid of logical sense and elementary critical and analytical spirit act, for which there is no reality but only their surreal parallel reality.

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My statement: «Thanks to the coronavirus the Madonna has escaped», it was a provocation that made blasphemy scream those who do not understand why they do not want to understand. The provocation is not an end in itself but is based on facts, not on malicious interpretations. Or as I briefly explained during that program 9 April: it had never happened in the history of the Church that an apparition protracted for over thirty years ceased in the full emergency of a full-blown pandemic. This was in fact the moment when this self-styled Madonna would announce to the false visionary Mirjana that she would no longer appear to her frequently, but only once a year. It is perhaps not a strange coincidence, especially considering that everything was not in the official message of the 18 March, but only one “confidence” addressed to the false seer, or how to say: a private dialogue between women?

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All the great lies set up by similar characters, always and strictly based on revelations, on a terrifying future to come, on terrible secrets that will sooner or later be revealed … in conclusion: everything is played on the magical-emotional element of fear. So the second episode of the now ridiculous saga of Gospa-Story it will be that of the phantom ten secrets that should be revealed after an extraordinary sign visible all over the world. And here I point out that to some subjects it is not very clear that time passes and, as they say, all the knots are then combed. In this regard, I remember that in 2001, to the self-styled seer Vicka, twenty years after the beginning of the apparitions and after the revelation of the secret trembles, was asked: "If you can't communicate the date of the secrets, you can at least tell us with a football metaphor, where are we from? match?». Vicka replied: «The second half has already started», thus implicitly giving the 2021 [see WHO]. Since January of 2018 the trumpet of the religion medjugoriana, Father Livio Fanzaga, warns that "times are near" and that "the revelation of secrets is imminent" [see WHO]. We will see shortly what these characters will invent, or what possible afterthought they will put in their mouths Madam, after being imprisoned by themselves in a castle of lies. They will do roughly like Jehovah's Witnesses who repeatedly announced the end of the world, then changing dates or saying that there had been a calculation error … Because this is where the team heads of the Gospa-Story: a cabbala sir. One fact is certain: the pandemic stopped apparitions and messages and made this false postman escape after three decades. Someone wants to deny this obvious fact?

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I conclude by clarifying: if the Church tells me otherwise, I will tell Paolo Del Debbio and friends of the editorial staff of Straight and Reverse that I have a moral duty, as a Catholic and as a presbyter, to introduce myself to that same transmission to ask publicly for forgiveness from the pseudo-visionaries of Medjugorie and to Paolo Brosio. But only when the Church tells me I'm wrong, until this happens I will continue to call those dark characters “charlatans”, which in the etymological sense of the word means: barkers who take advantage of people's good faith and credulity, even for personal gain. So I will continue to indicate that of Medjugorie as one “false Madonna” that after three decades of chatter and messages of bleak triviality - not a few of which also contain doctrinal errors -, before an epidemic has escaped, rather than comfort and intercede for us, as it has always done throughout the history and economy of salvation Mater Dei.

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Phenomena of this kind, with the monsters that derive from it, they arise since the Church renounced the exercise of its authority, waiting for things to settle themselves, except, however, to fall, with authority destroyed, in forms of sinister authoritarianism, those with which both innocent and faithful servants are struck and beaten to death today, while charlatans as the self-styled seers of Medjugorie proliferate, they gain weight and cause immense damage to the People of God and to the very credibility of the Church Mater et Magistra.

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the Island of Patmos, 13 April 2020

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34 thoughts on "With the Queen of Heaven who rejoices in the resurrection of Christ, we rejoice at the false Madonna of Medjugorie who fled the coronavirus pandemic

  1. Ariel good evening, from what I have been able to understand the core of the whole question, he summed it up perfectly in the article. I state that I have never had particular interest in the “Medjugorje phenomenon” as it has seemed to me up to now equivocal and confused, as also I have always had a great deal of perplexity towards Radio Maria managed as a one-way megaphone (and the thing years ago led me to big discussions with my mom big fan of the network). So I wanted to ask her if there is “rumor” after 30 years of an official pronouncement by the church, I seem to have understood that enough documentation has been collected over the years. I understand caution but the time seems ripe for me. Thanks

  2. Caro father Ariel, I will be dumb, but – really – I didn't understand why, in reference to the fact that since 28 March Our Lady no longer appears to one of the six visionaries every day, you say, not without obvious sarcasm, that Our Lady fled. From what the Madonna would have escaped? And the other five visionaries? They continue to see it (and, Once a year, also the sixth), then what sense does it say she ran away, and what does this have to do with the pandemic?
    At one point you say that this expression referred to the visionaries “displaced and defeated by the pandemic”, but what does it mean? I just don't get it. MAh!
    I thought that the Madonna on the run was a figurative way of representing Medjugorie, finally returned to being that desolate and deserted place that was before.
    Now, but, given that, if Our Lady appeared to you, the place of the apparitions is and remains a sacred place e, therefore, with or without pilgrims, It will never be the same again, the question is a must: why her, as a Catholic and as a priest, one should be pleased with the devastating effects of a pandemic just because the many pilgrims who would like to go there are prevented from going to Medjudorie, seeing, moreover, pilgrimages are also officially authorized?
    Don't tell me about the visionaries, just tell me how bad it has let you know that for forty years, a million people a year, including many distant, go to that place with great spiritual benefits for yourself and for the whole Church. And if he has never seen one of these benefits, then tell me of the evil action of Medjugorie on souls and on…

    1. I state that I am not responding in the place of the author of the article, I would like to point out that the alleged such benefits of the people who go to Medjugorie are, note, presumed such. It is not enough to say that millions of pilgrims go there, and it wouldn't even be enough to say that there are conversions. Because the conversion is only the starting point, not the arrival. Admitted and not granted that we have been converted, you have to see IF they are still Catholics and HOW they are. Because if the trip to a place of faith was enough to say that someone is converted, we are fresh!

      By this I do not mean that there are no converts. Maybe there are…but to say that those who went to Medjugorie converted have passed away.

      1. When Mary of Magdala went to the tomb on Easter morning and Jesus was revealed to her, he immediately ran to announce it to the Apostles, but nobody wanted or could believe it. Pietro and Giovanni, but, they ran to the sepulcher to realize themselves and, says the gospel, “Pietro saw and believed”.
        Here, this is to say that Peter did not bother to know how much Mary had really converted before deciding whether to believe her or not to believe her, but instead he felt the need to go and see for himself. The confirmation came from when, seeing the empty tomb, he was deeply convinced that Jesus had truly risen, as he said.
        And’ a useless sophism to ask those who have converted to Medjugorie, admitted and not granted that the calculation is possible, what really matters is feeling the need to go and see and then testify in person.

    2. Of course these seers must have been really good because they also screwed people like exorcist Father Amorth who said that the fruits of Medjugorje were good..
      There is that the first visions were true because the visionaries went into a trance..
      Anyway, to have faith we don't need Medjugorje..
      Enough the resurrection of Christ and the sacraments that he left us

  3. “in some respects an ambiguous relationship with money” , if we have to take it as a sign of non-credibility, I'm afraid we couldn't limit him to six ex-boys.

  4. The definition of building applies indifferently to a church and a tobacconist, the air that you breathe inside both has exactly the same chemical composition. Equating is not an invention of Brosio, but it is black on white in government decrees, compared to which the CEI has not blinked.

    1. I don't want to correct your statement for the sake of controversy, I apologize if it seems so, but I think the question is another: suspending popular participation in rites was the safest thing to do, yes or no? Because otherwise you will go endlessly into a game that doesn't really make much sense. The air you breathe at a concert or stadium is different from that of the church or tobacconist? So why do you ban concerts and sporting events?
      The speech is all there, whether the measures that CEI has approved are correct or not. Say “you can do x, but don't receive Christ” it is a sensationalist false equivalence and it would not be so different from a radical activist who said “I can drink until my liver breaks out but I don't practice euthanasia” the “I can smoke during pregnancy but not have an abortion on the ninth month”; beyond the practical aspects that differentiate buying a pack of cigarettes from participating in a ritual and receiving the Eucharist, there is also the metaphysical argument that Father Ariel brings, because I understand that you go to a tobacconist to buy a product, while Christ is not purchased as a prize presence at Mass (I believe, correct me if I'm wrong). Taking this fallacy to the extreme, you end up being able to theorize a distributor of consecrated hosts that the priest loads and to which you go to collect them after streaming

  5. I have always had doubts about Medjugorie.
    Paolo Brosio has lost all my esteem when some time ago he participated in the reality of the TV junk genre,making me doubt his conversion, since who after a sexually immoral past, it should stay away from morally unhealthy environments.
    Thanks father Ariel.
    I didn't know about “clairvoyant” who had a child from an adultery,now I have the certainty that there is a smell of sulfur in that place.

    1. Caro Michele, it's not a “clairvoyant” who had had a daughter with adultery, but the husband of one of these pseudo-seers! And it is the same as a few years ago in Milan, in front of thousands of people, in a meeting where he testified to his' great love’ for Madonna, he felt compelled to express to the President of the Republic as soon as he left, Napolitano, this wish: “I hope he dies soon”! All registered…

  6. Dear don Ariel, friendly (it is clear): the problem is not that Our Lady or the visionaries would have fled Medjugorje (incidentally: but who made him do it all, in communist Yugoslavia? And to foresee wars that happened around there?). The problem is that, after years of complaining about “Church output”, now we have the church barricaded, with priests who don't even celebrate alone because “so without the people it is not worth” and bishops of Rome who ambitiously call each other like the saint who kissed the leper but they are also careful not to approach a virus carrier. A poor Apulian parish priest was put to the pillory by Rai and his bishop because he dared to celebrate Good Friday in front of the church in the presence of people with a distance and wearing a mask. I'm sorry, but I'm on the side of the poor parish priest, not of those who despise him. I need to confess so much for Easter. I can not do that. I take it as a punishment from God, not as a rule of health prophylaxis.
    The “little ones” – to which Someone said that it was revealed much more than to the wise – instinctively certain things perceive them and are scandalized or suffer from them. Fanatics leave them alone, also because they are also among the self-styled intelligent rationalists followers of the New Course (actually, 70s paintings) and the Party Line. On the other hand, an irreverent irrational emotional fanatic of the hierarchies was already two thousand years ago and has come to the end he has done. Furthermore, they say he rose from the dead!

  7. Good evening Father Ariel , I have been following her for some time with interest but also with affection. His reflections on the Medjugorie case, however, left me puzzled and doubtful. I do not discuss his highlights on the enrichment of the "seers" , on the other hand, the subjects who in the past have received "apparitions" , I understand that all of them later sought "hiding". However, Messori …that in this matter I believe is prepared and reliable , he affirms that often Our Lady could appear and then NOT appear anymore but also VICEVERSA…The goodness of the apparition , always says Messori , it must be assessed with a view to the "FRUITS" that ripen , and in the case of Medjugorie I really don't think they are missing. This evidently surpasses all theological discourses which are difficult by nature and require like or dislike much "wisdom". The Holy Apostles , intellectually poor as most of us faithful , I think they believed above all because they "saw" the works of Christ and not because they made a whole series of logical theological evaluations .

  8. “Vale a dire: if we are not free from human passions or humors, we cannot transcend, always remaining within those limits which constitute an insurmountable brake so that the arcane mysteries of faith can be penetrated, proceeding through reason: Faith and Reason.”

    Speech health. I must add that I listened to Father Livio for years and continued to hear him sporadically until the beginning of the pandemic, since I listened to him in the car while I went to visit my mother in the nursing home. On Medjugorje always had doubts precisely because of an innate distrust of everything that reveals excesses of sentimentality, that the people of the visionaries feed with these repetitive messages. Quite opposite the stories of the seers of Fatima, and Bernadetta Soubirous, than with their sobriety, faithfulness and obedience were the best guarantee of the truth of their visions.
    We give Father Livio the credit for having awakened the desire for prayer in many, prayers are recited morning and evening, the average hour at noon, an impressive number di rosari…. when alone, elderly and perhaps sick, every comfort is welcome…..

  9. Reverend Father Ariel, I would like to ask you some questions why – certainly due to my ignorance – I cannot fully understand some of your observations and for this I ask you, If possible, a surplus of explanations.

    Once understood as true that spiritual goods are superior to material goods and are not comparable with each other as they belong to different levels, because on the part of the bishops - at least I don't know- the government has not criticized that in reality- him first – he put these goods on the same level and indeed subordinated the former to the latter, placing religious ceremonies within a list together with cultural and recreational events?

    My bewilderment, when I read the first ordinances in this regard, was really related to this – in my view – scandalous leveling of the institutional leaders, between mass and, eg, the carnival…

    In addition to everything, according to what I read in articles written by jurists, the government's behavior towards Catholic worship constitutes a field invasion and abuse, as the state cannot unilaterally establish suspension - that is, prohibition- of Masses with people's contest, because this would conflict with some articles of the concordat of 1984. What do you think?

    I also understand what you said elsewhere, that is, that the number of priests is currently so small compared to the Italian population, than in the face of such a virulent contagion, you can't afford to lose any of them; however, he does not think that alternative solutions could have been found?

  10. Considering that the first seven apparitions had really taken place, the fact would appear even more chilling: the seers would have had contact with the divine ,which they then used to build their fortunes in the following thirty years. Humanly inconceivable. It should also be borne in mind that an enormous number of people have come to Medjugorias animated by a deep and sincere need for faith. Evil uses us continuously, causing us to be in a state of great confusion, as perhaps never before.

  11. Dear p. Ariel,

    I knew something about the history of the Franciscans of Herzegovina, and I believe on this basis that it is not a Madonnas problem, but of history (Franciscan) of this region. You know I'm not theologian (and I don't talk about Mariology) nor am I a sociologist, but historic (in religious matters I am a member of the Soc. Italian History of Religions and International Ass, for the History of Religions, where they are only academics).

    Now I learn that many of these friars have been expelled from the Order, is one, ex “friend” of the visionaries, later became a member of an extravagant sect he was excommunicated for schism and heresy: https://www.marcocorvaglia.com/medjugorje/medjugorje-cattolicesimo-geneticamente-modificato.html. The site belongs to Marco Corvaglia who seems to me to use official sources well also in Croatian, especially of the Bosnian bishops. He writes that he is an agnostic. He is not an academic scholar (it is not a member of the SISR as it is not the “sociologist” Introvigne) and it is not neutral. I take his job with the springs, but references to sources are interesting (the part on miracles would leave it alone).
    To you what it looks like?

    I work on the sources, but by method, if I want to understand a fact, not later, but at first. A crime is resolved by seeking whoever saw it (he wanted?) the victim. The visionaries are what they are, but if it is not Our Lady, who suggested? Or influenced, in that very special atmosphere and environment of 1981? The commission aimed the visionaries (about money etc.), but he forgot who had the ability to influence weak people in every aspect.

    The money business of the visionaries causes scandal and makes newspapers read, but it seems irrelevant to me. Weak people, little master of himself, of a very poor area, ex communist, badly assisted (regardless of whether they believe they see the Madonna), become famous and rich, they throw themselves on money and kitsch (see photos of pseudo-Californian style villas and hotels). It seems normal to me. And exalted ask for funds? Normal. Who knows Croatia (like me) knows. Let alone Herzegovina.

    Rather these poor weak young people, uncultivated, unprepared, they belong to a poor Croatian Catholic population, historically persecuted, where the only moral authorities are the friars for centuries, who protect them from Turks and Serbs, and die with them (the town is a land of massacres, until the 1945, including monks): friars who without a guide, without ever a bishop, when the bishop arrives, they believe he is a usurper of their labors and resist. Disobbescono. Friars without a guide come out of the seed, they draw on culture new age, while the regime falters. These young people from a miserable village are assisted by friars in a psychological situation of "resistance".

    Who knows medieval fraticelli, beghini, Spiritual Franciscans know hundreds of rebellions (the anti-pope Niccolò V spiritual Franciscan). Between conventual and observant, a little later, there was violence. He fools himself in good faith ... I would therefore not use the morality of the visionaries as a posteriori proof (a theologian can, but I wouldn't stop at theological science: the Maurini OSB were historians and philologists).

  12. We have two striking examples from the past of two alleged seers then exposed as false, one was a nun, Sister Magdalene of the Cross, and the other Nicole Tavernier, both from the 16th century, which they managed to deceive, Bishops, priests and even theologians, many people yes “converting”, Endless wonders that lasted for many years, to finally be miserably exposed, the authenticity criterion does not depend neither on conversions, nor by prodigies, but by pseudo seers, if they are obedient to ecclesiastical authority, if their conduct is flawless, if there was no profit, if the claims (messages) conform to the doctrine of the Church, and more, all this is missing from the pseudos seers of Medjugorje.
    Francesco

  13. But the messages didn't end with the coronavirus!! But who said that???

    The apparitions have ended for some and for others not. Mijriana had them every two of the month and once a year for her birthday precisely on 18 March .

    Those of the 2 of the month were for "those who have not known The love of God" with messages to that effect , that is, atheists . In the annual apparition that is the 18 March was told that she will no longer have those of 2 of the month because it is a finished phase : that is, all that was said was said . But Mijriana will continue to have annual apparitions like two other visionaries who have not had apparitions for years : Jacob is Ivanka. While the other three continue to have them regularly. In fact Mirjana was told the 18 March that the apparitions of the 2 of each month are finished for you , but the other 3 in fact, they continue to have them a week after 25 March they had the apparition . And they will continue to have it regularly until they completely stop I don't know if suddenly for everyone or gradually .
    During the so-called 10 secrets a seer will continue to have visions.

    The apparitions have ended with the relative "dedicated" message of 2 of the month. Others the next 25 April will have them regularly.

    Other:
    He did not go into the pseudo-visionary theme or not ( that is, a bluff). I wanted to point out that they did not end due to the "escape" of the godpa due to coronavirus….

    I add:
    Human bluff cannot be .. because there are a whole series of phenomena that cannot be explained scientifically verified by 3 scientific commissions

    3 international scientific commissions (an Italian led by Dr. Frigerio) where the visionaries have been meticulously monitored during the ecstasy and the relationship speaks of healthy people from a psychological or psychiatric point of view and at the same time with different physical reactions during the ecstasy that cannot be explained scientifically: is: simultaneous knee drop , pupil with unidirectional fixity of all the visionaries at the same time, everyone's body temperature changes and cardiac data changes, insensitivity to pain ( stings or fire ) , insensitivity of the surface of the eye while passing nylon tips and absence of beating of the eyebrows for normal reaction, they move their mouths but no sound comes out but at the same time the vocal cords vibrate ( the vocal cords vibrate only if there is a voice: you can't mock ) and I could go on ....

    How have they been supporting this since childhood for 40 year old ??? The smallest had 9 years and the largest 15!

    So human artifice is not:
    1) or is of a divine nature
    2) or diabolical in nature
    3) or initially divine then transformed into a diabolical phenomenon ( it can happen ..)

    Other: is the healings with a medical bureau of over 500 healings that do not respond to rational medical and certified canons, some of which are sudden??? Unexplained ...

    How did kids since almost children carry on such a thing? Impossible

    The transcendent is there, (sure without a shadow of a doubt) . I repeat :it is to be determined whether it has Divine or Diabolic origins .

    1. I will limit myself to a brief consideration on healing miracles:

      it is documented, ascertained and demonstrated that unexplained healings have occurred, sometimes truly striking, both in India at the sanctuary of the goddess Kali and in Saudi Arabia in Mecca, and in other places in the world where pagan cults are practiced.
      And these are inexplicable and sometimes even striking healings.

      If the miracle were always a proof of authenticity of a supernatural event, he does not think that we should insert the cult of the goddess Kali into the Catholic Church, go on a pilgrimage to Mecca and visit other places of worship of pagan animism where these documented and completely inexplicable events occurred?

      As regards finally the irrefutable evidence on the alleged seers of Medjugorie I ask them: what are these “prove” compared to a Hindu monk who walks on a ten-meter long carpet of incandescent embers without causing even a minimum burn?

      Because you know, out of “microcosm” of certain Catholics, there is a whole world very articulated and sometimes really inexplicable.

      1. Father Ariel really apologize but I'm more confused than before.
        If it is not the miracles and the fruits that make the fact plausible in itself , leaving aside the visionaries at least in the current phase , of course, only the indication of the competent ecclesiastical hierarchy remains.
        But then in the case of San Padre Pio what happened ? Miracles and fruits in abundance but hierarchy against …then in the end the Good prevails ... when you are dead …
        It is true that the Orthodox Church also believes that the majority of our Marian apparitions are the result of a lot of imagination on the one hand and some interest on the part of the Catholic hierarchy in others ... only when needed..

        1. … note, St. Pio of Pietrelcina, who obeyed the Church and the Ecclesiastical Authority always and without saying a word, something that certainly cannot be said of the pseudo-seers who have repeatedly used messages from the Gospa to place the faithful against the bishop of the diocese of Mostar-Duvno, with the most devoted gospari who still muddy his memory saying around that he was against and did not believe in the apparitions because “she was a spy enslaved to the communist regime”, as Paolo Brosio said to me during the transmission of the 5 March of Straight and Reverse.
          Read what things went on writing not decades ago, but “yesterday”, the current Bishop of Mostar-Duvno as chair: accuse self-styled seers of lying and lying:

          https://www.md-tm.ba/clanci/gli-attacchi-della-apparsa-di-medjugorje-al-vescovo-diocesano-pavao-zanic

          1. The link posted by dear Father Ariel is obviously worthy of consideration , because it is not a document of "any one" but of a Bishop and moreover a local Bishop ( and not cheap ). Theoretically it should be sufficient to close the apparitions of Medjugorie with a negative verdict . Except that "that" position is a part( important) of the dispute of a mosaic which has evidently taken on a much, much larger scope. The Vatican "de facto" removed the jurisdiction of the local Bishops with a larger Vatican commission ( directed by Ruini ) and coincidentally excluding from being part of it Monsignor Peric signatory of the document posted by Father Ariel. Question: Why Is That?
            At the same time as the declarations of Bishop Peric, other bishops and even cardinals took a stand in favor of Medjugorie ( despite knowing the "negative" facts described) including the Bishop of Zagreb and even the famous theologian Hans Von Balthasar even intervened in defense of the visionaries who wrote a letter to Mons Zanic telling him that he was too impulsive and stating that Medjuugrie is theologically the "perfect" continuation of Fatima . The truth? The matter is complex and still entirely open … both in the negative and positive sense…
            Read this interesting article of the leaflet carefully .

            https://www.google.it/amp/s/www.ilfoglio.it/articoli/2010/10/08/news/guerra-santa-a-medjugorje-67165/amp/

            Ps: I do not correct if there are errors in form and grammar , I write on my cell phone and the automatic corrector does what it pleases…;-)

          2. @Gabry
            a brief note just to note that the Vatican has not taken away the jurisdiction of the local bishops with the institution of the Ruini Commission, but long before, that is, since the apparitions of the Gospa ceased to be a local phenomenon, to become a worldwide phenomenon. I am not saying this in relation to the influx of pilgrims from all continents, but with reference to the numerous apparitions that the visionaries had even when they were away from Medjugorie (also on board the plane, eg).
            Therefore, apparitions for many years “of Medjugorje” they are not phenomena related to Medjugorie, but to the visionaries, wherever they are, and, therefore, local bishops (that is, the bishops of Medjugorie), de facto, they are no longer competent by virtue of the canonical norms even before the Vatican invoked the judgment on the phenomena underway.
            I add a note: the judgment of the local bishops on Medjugorie was expressed with the canonical formula “there is no evidence of the supernatural”, that is, there is no evidence of supernatural event, but, however, never a bishop allowed himself to say that Medjugorie was a phenomenon of preternatural origin as several invaded Medjugorie detractors say.

      2. Dear Don Ariel, after this post, I absolutely have to ask to help me resolve some of my doubts. If as you say, unexplained and striking healings are not a sign of a “spiritual / transcendent plane” than the plan “soil / immanent”, in other words, if such healings are not a sign of the existence of the world “supernatural”, what can be?
        if the “prove” of the studies done on the visionaries of Medjugorje are little compared to “Hindu monk walking on a carpet of glowing embers (which I knew was perfectly explainable on a natural level, see also CICAP and the “Wizard” Giucas Casella) what could be important and significant instead? What I read here is no different from what the atheists / agnostics said when I mentioned certain things… nothing would exist “supernatural” according to their, but only a kind of “placebo effect”/autosuggestion or at most would be manifestations of “powers” still unknown to the science of the human mind… For them, everything would start and die in the mind of man, stop, without God or supernatural… I have always thought that instead certain phenomena are “test” incontrovertible that there is not only the earthly / immanent / natural world but also the spiritual / transcendent / supernatural one and that, if some are clear signs of the Power of God, others are phenomena “paranormal / preternatural” which can also be the result of negative / diabolical powers “rubarle” his profession as a theologian, would you tell me how…

  14. Twenty thousand on the old woman's hill

    Thirty years ago the great mockery of the apparition of the Virgin

    MONTESILVANO. Thousands of eyes turned towards the sun for hours, bitter cold to freeze the ends, religious songs turned to heaven and the first non-EU sellers in search of profit…

    01 March 2018

    MONTESILVANO. Thousands of eyes turned towards the sun for hours, bitter cold to freeze the ends, religious songs turned to heaven and the first non-EU sellers on the hunt for easy money, with santini and puppets for children. It happened 30 years ago, the 28 February 1988. That day, Montesilvano was transformed into a place of pilgrimage and prayer, jumped to the honors of the national news for a miracle that never happened.
    The great hoax held the city in suspense, and it was also the cause of several illnesses, with chilled people or with damage to the eye retina for looking at the sun for a long time without filters. It was a cold Sunday morning when 20,000 climbed the Colle della Vecchia and waited with anxiety and devotion for the arrival of the Madonna. Not just faithful, of course. Many curious and journalists from all over Italy flocked to the Colle. The apparition was announced by the parish priest, Don Vincenzo Diodati, and by a seer, Maria Antonietta Fioritti, who said he had contact with the Virgin. In the cold but clear sky of late February it should have appeared, according to the conviction of the priest and the self-styled "chosen", the Virgin herself who would reveal an important message to the faithful.

    Not just faithful, of course. Many curious and journalists from all over Italy flocked to the Colle. The apparition was announced by the parish priest, Don Vincenzo Diodati, and by a seer, Maria Antonietta Fioritti, who said he had contact with the Virgin. In the cold but clear sky of late February it should have appeared, according to the conviction of the priest and the self-styled "chosen", the Virgin herself who would reveal an important message to the faithful. But the privilege of being in front of the mother of Jesus would have been the prerogative of only the most humble and of the patients.
    And yet, the hours went by and no sign from heaven. «We want to rush God?», a parishioner repeated at the microphone before the first signs of impatience. Thus, as time went by, temperatures were getting colder and skeptics were returning home. The most devoted waited impatiently until late at night, before giving up all hope.
    Our Lady does not live here: this was the official sentence of the Church and since then, indeed, not even the shadow of the Virgin in Montesilvano. At least

    1. Sorry don't be offended
      But what you wrote shows nothing . It is known that today more than ever, we are inflated with supposed supernatural "messages" , of internal locutions of various kinds , of visions , apparitions and signs , of which the vast majority are either fake bluffs or worse of diabolical origin . In Lourdes following the appearance in the cave ( authentic) there were dozens and dozens of similar apparitions, some of which nearly misled the local Bishop, mistaking them for real ( quote: Rene Laurenteen ) they were so convincing and plausible : they were all fake or diabolical.

      Medjugorie is a complex thing , and many things have happened also in a supernatural sense or better than a complex rational / scientific explanation from the visionaries in ecstasy to the healings to external visual phenomena ( net of the inevitable "fake" especially in certain videos of you tube of pulsating sun in various shapes and styles) witnessed by hundreds of people at the same time , of different nationalities , age, cultural status etc ( to multiple and continued collective hallucinations / suggestions in 40 years I don't believe it ).
      What you mentioned was simply a bluff yet poorly organized . That's all . And for the purposes of the truthfulness or not of Medjugorie it proves nothing.
      The question is entirely open both in possible positive and negative results ….. and I think it is far from a final conclusive verdict of the Church which, although proceeding at times apparently almost contradictory in the end by a just sentence ….

  15. What I wrote just wants to show that even then we were a people of gullible, baptized, cresimati, but gullible, I remember those days very well.

    In a week they gathered more than 20 thousand people to follow a woman and a priest deceived by the visionary,it was enough that the priest had consulted with the Bishop,with the Church and this would not have happened
    The Church and its Bishop immediately discovered deception what could not have happened on the opposite side of the Adriatic for reasons already explained on Father Ariel's fb page (pro-communist dictatorship of Titus, Balkan war).

    After the war, this horde of DIY Christians literally invaded the country of alleged apparitions
    as presumed were those of Pescara, if I remember correctly, we spoke before visions of the visionary and then there was the famous appointment.

    You see I live in Abruzzo and beyond 20 year old, in my tiny country of 2.700 anime in summer, Two coaches of alleged pilgrims leave for the places of the apparitions. This is a do-it-yourself pilgrimage for do-it-yourself Christians.
    Well, more than 20 years never of the five parish priests who followed each other in the parish took part in one of these trips,therefore a body without the Head is a dead body.

    Now these people who have been making these trips for years and on their way back tell of the alleged miracles of the conversions,etc.. etc.. mai in 20 years have approached the parish or live the parish,but a new doctrine made of visions and messages made live a parallel faith ad personam, headed by two ladies (in my case) that have little to do with the Christianity of the Church, the parish community. Just like all those people who haunted Father Ariel's fb pages as real fanatics,fans, possessed by their "religion"

    1. Of, but if she says we are ok.
      Thanks for the link you sent us. Rather tell me: the script she presented as proof of authenticity, by whom it was written? By chance by the president of the International Theological Commission?
      tell us … tell us … how does your criterion work “irrefutable proof”?

      1. Indisputable proof ?
        I don't have to prove anything, I just reported a news from the TV2000 journalist David Murgia.
        Mass is taken from 2 May and with the borders reopened pilgrimages will resume.
        If you are not aware of these facts, I listen to your arguments.

  16. I also don't believe in the phenomenon of Medjugorje, seers enriched with hotels,villas and swimming pools and then the Virgin Mary who appears every day for many years to always say the same things ... also the Heavenly Mother told one of the visionaries that she would no longer appear to her every day but only once a year,and all this,as soon as it became known about the health emergency from Covid ... but it shouldn't be the other way around??? A mother is closer to her children in danger ...,No,on the contrary,coincidentally,the health emergency begins and Our Lady not only doesn't waste a word on an epidemic going on in the world so contagious, but,right at the moment of emergency start,decides to appear once a year ...,also the husband of the”clairvoyant””shines with reflected light” thanks to his wife and therefore, will attract like flies to……miele

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