Pope Francis to visit the Lutheran and the commemoration of the Lord's Supper
THE POPE VISITS BY FRANCESCO LUTHERAN AND COMMEMORATION OF THE LORD'S SUPPER
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Being able to celebrate together, Catholics and Lutherans the Lord's Supper, It is certainly something beautiful and highly desirable. But if for now we do not agree on what does and says the president or minister of the assembly, and what Christ does happen in that moment, what sense can have an assembly as what some call with severe lightness "intercommunion"?
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John Cavalcoli OP
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The 15 November 2015, to a question on the Holy Communion on him by a lady during the informal meeting at the Evangelical Lutheran Community of Rome, Pope Francis responded: "When asked to share the Lord's Supper is not easy for me to answer, especially in front of a theologian like Cardinal Kasper! I'm scared! I think that the Lord told us when he gave this mandate: "Do this in memory of me". And when we share the Lord's Supper, remember and imitate, we do the same thing that made the Lord Jesus. And the Lord's Supper will be, the final banquet in New Jerusalem there will be, but this will be the last. Instead the path, I wonder - and I do not know how to respond, but his request I make my - I wonder: share the Lord's Supper is the end of a journey or is the encouragement to walk together? I leave the question to the theologians, those who understand ".
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15.11.2015, Pope Francis to visit the Evangelical Lutheran Community of Rome. Clicking on the image you can open the video footage of the Vatican Television Center
The Holy Father visited the 15 Last November the Evangelical Lutheran Community of Rome [see video, WHO] and he mentioned the significance for Christians of ritual commemoration of the Last Supper, urging those present to a deepening and clarification of the Lord's words pronounced on the bread and wine, and formulating the hope that one day all Christians, overcome the current divisions, can, on the basis of existing common values, from Baptism, remember and live in perfect and full communion among themselves this key event in the life of Christ and consequently of our salvation.
Being an ecumenical encounter occasional and informal, Pope obviously has not even mentioned the Catholic dogma of the Eucharist, about which they are still ongoing discussion, negotiation and ecumenical officers of experts, in which the Pope did not want to go. He merely noted that we Catholics agree with the Lutherans to recognize that when the minister of the church service repeats the Lord's words over the bread and wine narrated in the Gospels, The faith of all Christians is that Jesus Christ is really present in the glorious celebrating community with the offer of his grace.
This truth of faith shared by all, He has made it clear the Pope, is one of the bases of dialogue and debate that, under the assistance of the Holy Spirit, in sincere charity and a spirit of reconciliation in diversity, It should lead to the unity of eschatological one flock and one shepherd.
The speech of the Holy Father at the Evangelical Lutheran
As we all know, Luther, opposing the dogmatic interpretation of the traditional Church, denied that Christ, after the words' this is my body ", meant that this, he had in his hands was no more bread, although it maintained the appearance of bread, but it was just really, and substantially His body. Luther believed that this was a false interpretation and that until then the Church was wrong. Because of this, he thought he had found the truth, interpreting the words of Christ in the sense that he would be present in the bread, as if he had said: "I am in this bread", thus formulating the concept of presence "in-with-and-under the species of bread and wine ". However, this does not correspond at all to what really and literally said Jesus.
Memorial holy and living
Even Jesus, with the word "this» Even Jesus, with the word "this" [this, in Greek (the οὗτος, she, this, "this"), which corresponds to the Latin hoc], he meant to say "this bread", because it is a neutral, namely 'this thing', "This substance" in a generic sense, so that it can refer either jointly or with bread and body, because it is the moment in which the bread is the body transustanziando. The other part, it is impossible that Jesus meant to say: "This bread is my body ', because it would be an absurdity: nothing can be a thing and simultaneously be another thing. Everything has its own identity and excludes all other than her. Instead Luther seemed absurd that the bread should repent in the substance of Christ's body keeping accidents or form or "species" own bread. Indeed, he paid no attention to the fact that among the accidents and substance of created there is a real distinction, and therefore a principle of separability, whereby, although in fact in nature it never happens that there are accidents without their substance or a substance without its accidents, if he had kept in mind the above-mentioned separability, would have no difficulty he remains faithful to dogma and he would have realized that it was not the Church to err, but it was him.
Mass of the Holy Father Francis
Now, Ecumenism is certainly looking what we Catholics have in common with the Lutherans. However, Catholics can not be satisfied and stop, as mistakenly believes Rahner [1], the findings of the Truth, albeit beautiful and consoling, resulting from or arising out of the ecumenical agreement, almost that with what our duties to the Lutheran brothers and their love for Christ and for us until finished, as if there was nothing else to do for us Catholics and the unit was already achieved, ma, on the basis of common values, we Catholics have to find them and to their service, life, times, places, the ways and methods charitable, cautious, lowly, fermi, persevering, patients, persuasive, to lead them and prepare them to gradually regain lost truths and among these is the right interpretation of the institution of the Eucharist and the Priesthood, and then that of the Mass at the Last Supper by the Lord.
Mass of the Holy Father Francis
Being able to celebrate together, Catholics and Lutherans the Lord's Supper, It is certainly something beautiful and highly desirable. But if for now we do not agree on what does and says the president or minister of the assembly, and what Christ does happen in that moment, what sense can have an assembly as what some call with severe lightness "intercommunion"? Which communion where there is division? Let us unite where we can be united, that is where we have the same faith. If one believes what the other believes false true, and vice versa, that sense may have come together on a similar basis? You can do communion on a given thing, when we accuse each other of being the fake precisely rifermento that thing, ie on the basis of the disagreement on what is the truth of faith in the game or on the meaning of Christ's words? Let us agree now to where you can do it. We do not force things. Expect more, It would be fiction or comedy, in the end, offensive of the Christ, we all love. Let's get used to wait, while we operate the can. "Sopportiamoci one another in love" [cf. Ef 4,2].
Journeying through the paths of the Spirit …
Not precorriamo times, we advance where the path opens, in "reconciled diversity", in testimony and in the search for truth, in that degree of communion, that for now we are not allowed, In respect, in forgiveness and mutual correction, giving us the works of justice and charity, particular attention to the poor, to the needy and suffering, without stagnation, but without haste, without illusions, but without losing heart, devoted to prayer and asking light to the Word of God.
These are tips, stimuli and ideas that come to us or we can come from the words of the Holy Father. Welcome them with confidence, and let them earn, open to the promptings of the Holy Spirit unpredictable and invigorating.
Varazze, 17 November 2015
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[1] Rahner explains his thesis in the book Union of Churches. Real possibility, Publishing Morcelliana, Brescia 1986.
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Many thanks to Fr.. John to his words with which in a clear reaffirms its unfailing Catholic teaching on the Eucharist.
Dear Ettore.
I do not answer – be clear – in the name of Father John Cavalcoli, but within just in the discussion, leaving him the answer. Within the discussion because I have written several times and talked on’Patmos Island – always with all due respect due to the Successor of Peter – certain limitatezze the Holy Father Francis; place that – as I have often referred to the Gospels and the Acts of the Apostles in hand – the Blessed Apostle Peter showed him well ahead of even greater limits.
The Holy Father Francis is not Saint John Paul II, who he was a polyglot and had an extraordinary familiarity with the languages. The Holy Father Francis “does not speak well” even Spanish, in the sense that, its expression in his native language, express is a very essential, thin and poor in words. As a result, more than a good Italian, He speaks in fact a kind of … itagnolo.
That the Holy Father Francis is not prepared for languages is a fact, but it is neither a sin nor his responsibility. I'll try to clarify with an example, I have studied in the past few languages along with several other people, with this result: now I have reproduced the correct pronunciation and correctly I have always spoken well immediately, What is not attributable either to me about either any special efforts of will, but only to the fact that by nature I have a musical ear and I never had trouble playing back the voice sounds of some languages. Others, despite having applied much more than me, at a distance of years I have never been able to pronounce it right some languages, while knowing them thoroughly better still me.
If the Holy Father Francis, perhaps it would be appropriate to avoid is called “speeches off the cuff”, is especially impromptu answers to questions that require – and especially in his greatest role – very precise answers and often quite well-articulated.
If someone gives me an audience with the Holy Father in Santa Marta, I say all this to him without any problem, because I suspect more and more that he is surrounded by people who … “good heart”, or hopes or expectations interior more or less well-hidden, avoid “wisely” to tell him the truth.
Anyhow, albeit in bad Italian, the answer given by the Holy Father to the Lord to put a question on the Eucharist, in the bottom substance was a flawless response. But anyway, although it was expressed in a masterly way and with an extraordinary fluency, who unfortunately decided to make the sniper on the Supreme Pontiff, feeling more guardian of truth and deeming him now more Catholic than the Successor of Peter, opened fire too.
Rev. Dad,
It is to be appreciated His intervention, expression of his mild-tempered and filial respect that she always manifested toward the Pope.
The fact remains in itself. It is not the first time it happens. When the Pope dismisses the writing and speaking off the cuff – improvising – often fails to express the appropriate language necessary and proper clarity of thought that the “teacher of faith ” You should always use towards its interlocutors, it almost seems “surprised” by the argument of demand and hesitant, how unprepared, It is hard to articulate a simple answer, firm and convincing…
A paradoxical situation that surprises, worried and dismayed many faithful.
Then priests, theology, Bishops are called to play a complementary role now, now interpretative, Now the real substitute, corrective.
Examples are the letters of the diocesan bishops for the events in Paris or even videos like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPdQnHZkHAs
Urge pray even more for ourselves, for the Church and for the Pope.
Dear Mr. Manzo.
We must distinguish the doctrine of the Catholic faith by the Catholic. E’ clear that the doctrine of the Catholic faith contains the fullness of Christian truth, unlike Protestantism, incomplete and erroneous in several places.
the Catholic, instead, however learned and orthodox, You can have a culture defective or deficient culture in some respects, perhaps not out of malice but of ignorance or insufficient training.
Because of this, one can not exclude that he may be corrected or instructed by some Protestant prepared and fervorso. This can happen in the doctrinal field, but more easily in the moral field. To about, the church, treating of ecumenism standards, He talked about the duty of a mutual forgiveness and a mutual correction.
mutual correction? What should correct us Lutherans? The fullness of Truth is it not in the Catholic Church?
Dear Mr. Castelli,
the belief in transubstantiation qualification being a Catholic, because it is a dogma, denying which it falls into heresy. Because of this, those who deny this dogma, he is not Catholic, but a heretic.
Accept by faith requires and does not exclude joining the reasoning and intelligence with what you believe. It means, Certain, Avoid claiming to rationally prove what has been revealed, Otherwise faith would not make sense.
But that does not mean that you can and should shed light on the mystery, using reason. And the doctrine of transubstantiation is the highest intelligence effort to explain the mystery of faith.
The magic and idolatry, which they are mortal sins, have nothing to do absolutely, and indeed it would be impious and detestable believe the, it is instead of sublime truths salvific, designed by God.
What the sacrament has a symbolic meaning, there is no doubt, but it would be grave error to ignore the value of faith in what actually happens, policies where the celebrant says the words of the Lord.
The officiating priest said propriissimamente, because it is a participant, Minister and representative of Christ the High Priest, and the priest is simply this: Sacrum in it. The priest gives us the Sacred, who is God.
E’ dogma of faith that the Mass is the same sacrifice on the altar of the Cross actualized without bloodshed. To deny it is heresy.
His ideas are exactly those of Luther, which they were condemned by the Council of Trent.
Luther has not rediscovered the Gospel against Rome, but it falsified.
Who created conflicts in the Church was Luther with his heresies.
The stay together, when it is profitable, val more than just ideas, but come together on the basis of lies is pure foolishness.
The issue today is that even Catholics can give that meaning to the Transubstantiation he had in the Middle Ages. To the modern mind no one can see a transformation, it must therefore be accepted for pure faith without intelligence, and everything points to something arcane, if not magical, almost idolatrous. People rationally and spiritually sees the sacrament much more symbolically, with its many related meanings, to begin assembly in communion of prayer and listening in the foreground with respect to FIG mystical officiant said, for some improperly, the priest, even worse for many Christians today, di cereal Unbloody. Whether you're also protestantizzando the Catholic world? No, dear John Cavalcoli say you want to shoot the native evangelical thought! So the good shepherd who does not fall into the trap of generating ideological conflicts, the reality of being together worth more ideas.
Dad, it would be interesting to have his opinion on the points from the 125 al 136 included, the Larger Catechism of St. Pius X.
Kind regards. Want to bless.