We stand by the Italian bishops. C.E.I to the Holy Father invites the “poverty”. The Father Ariel is selling his Porsche and the opportunity to request pardon to Cardinal Angelo Bagnasco

DEFEND ITALIAN BISHOPS. C.E.I TO THE HOLY FATHER CALLS TO "POVERTY". FATHER ARIEL SPORTS SELL HIS PORSCHE AND WITH THE OPPORTUNITY TO REQUEST FORGIVENESS FOR CARDINAL ANGELO BAGNASCO

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In his opening speech at the 69th Plenary Assembly of the Bishops of Italy, The Holy Father said the right things and true, but communicated incorrectly, with a hint of bitterness and especially without a cautious sense of universal proportions, doing so yet another joy of our eternal enemies and humbling at the same time a full seated bishops so humiliating us priests who venerate them and obey them as our Pastors.

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Author Father Ariel
Author
Ariel S. Levi Gualdo

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ariel sale porsche
in the picture: Porsche race by Father Ariel listing. The proceeds will go in part to the Committee for establishment of Muslim holidays in schools [cf. WHO], in part for construction of new mosques in Bologna [cf. WHO] and in part for the construction of a bike path inside the cathedral of Palermo Metro [cf. WHO]

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If the world hates you, know that it hated me before. If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you from the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you: A servant is not greater than his master. If they persecuted me, persecute you; If they kept my word, they will keep yours. But all this will do to you because of my name, because they know not him that sent me.

[G 15, 18-21]

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The Holy Father Francis, most of his Supreme Predecessor John Paul II is a man who play watch mass-media, but with a difference: Saint John Paul II by mass-media It was done in pieces for long years. Indeed, in this world he is suffering from great shortage of historical memory, everyone remembers the oldie with the body now deformed and with support staff to move a few steps. Everyone remembers the delicacy of the television networks that moved the shot during the sacred celebrations when the lips of the Holy Father laid low by illness surfaced a drool, as he struggled to articulate words in an understandable way. Here then touched hearts, men and women softened, young people weeping ... but towards the end of his life!

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WOJTYLA SARA 'beatified MAY DAY 2011 / SPECIAL
30 March 2005, a few days before his death, a harrowing picture of Saint John Paul, who tries to talk, but without success, overlooking the balcony to greet the large crowd which gathered for the Angelus in St. Peter's Square.

The ailing old man It was in fact only the latest John Paul II, not the first, nor the second. If we did historical memory we should remember that this Holy Pontiff, starting from 1978 - Year in which the writer had 15 years - has been opposed and reviled for years by the liberal press that now sings "Viva Francesco!». In St. John Paul II we must acknowledge that in deference to the truth of mass-media he is served at a high price to announce in his long pontificate what the world did not want to hear. Perhaps Eugenio Scalfari, director of the Osservatore Romano parallel, lost memory, but we remember well there him, when the columns of The Republic, today official organ of the Holy See, mocked John Paul II - he accused of being opposed to abortion - inviting him to be studied a treaty-based histology. John Paul II did not like the secular world, He not even liked a good slice of the Catholic world, at some theological and ecclesiastical world, He did not like the Communists, He did not like the Masons, He did not like the liberal-capitalist; and for years, his supreme magisterium has been spread by mass-media through controversy and attacks often more virulent; all because John Paul II has never cared to do and say what he liked in the world [cf. GV 15, 18-21], and it is precisely this which rests the heroic nature of his virtues. Of Pope Francis, the third year of his pontificate Augustus we can say rather the exact opposite: he expressed what the world, and in particular the ultra liberals wanted to hear, also and especially in critical tones, sometimes raging against the Church, of its bishops and clergy. Among the many paradigms remains for me symptomatic that of Freemasonry: when ever in the course of its history, the birth of this pernicious sect gnostic-esoteric, with not indifferent to Satanism tips, They had never heard the Freemasons and their most senior leaders praise a Supreme Pontiff and his pontificate? Because there are two possibilities, and I doubt that there is a third: If Masons praise and exalt a Pontiff and his pontificate, as repeatedly they did and how they are doing, or they have converted, or is there anything that does not work; and this something we should worry a lot.

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With his opening speech the 69th Plenary Assembly of the Bishops of Italy, The Holy Father said the right things and true, but communicated in the wrong way and without a cautious sense of universal proportions, doing so yet another joy of our eternal enemies and humbling at the same time a full seated bishops, so humiliating us priests who venerate them and obey them as our Pastors [full text of the speech, WHO].

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General Audience of Wednesday '
usually, when the Holy Father does not smile, or speaks of the bishops or priests speaks …

But let's start from images, since today we live conditioned and slaves of the world image. We all have He saw the Holy Father smiling with his mouth full before real or alleged refugees, to prisoners, to Muslim women, a Lutheran heretics, Pentecostals and Anglicans. We saw him smiling in photos as "one of us" or as "ER Pope de noartri”, while after having served the self-service of the Domus Sanctae Martae table he sat with his tray to a table to eat his meal with five workers employed at the Holy See ... But when you start talking about bishops or priests, his face becomes serious, almost gloomy, his talk is accompanied by signs written all over his face. And these are photographs and film, not personal opinions.

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The bottom substance the speech is impeccable and the defects and vices of the clergy and episcopate that the Holy Father has set out are the same that I too have repeatedly shown over time, already years before the start of his pontificate; and in brighter tones and severe. Well why, none of the currents of secularism structurally and increasingly anti-clerical and anti-Catholic, He never emphasized those writings and those publications in which a priest wrote, precisely as such, from the inside and on an informed basis, on the serious evils that afflicted the Church and its clergy? I explain right away why: because they could not strumentalizzarmi. Because higher were my highest critical tones are perceived my devotion to the Church. Harsher were my most critical was confirmed that even the most mediocre bishops and scandalous, even those spree modernist heresies and doctrinal errors, was due filial obedience and respect. And these things, to mass-media laicisti, anticlerical Freemasons and that today cry out "Long live Francesco!», not interested.

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Helder Camara
The Brazilian bishop Helder Câmara [1909-1999]

The Holy Father has humiliated the Bishops of Italy on the lines and behind the lines of this latest rebuke even bringing them as episcopal model under a character to say the least ambiguous as the Brazilian Bishop Hélder Câmara, that I personally never would dream of bringing as an example, and especially then as an example of doctrine and pastoral. A bishop for whom today, to invoke his beatification, and the gotha Liberation Theology, led by heretics and renegade priests as Leonard Boff and Giovanni Franzoni, as Hans Küng and so. And to quote such a small character as a model for the bishops of a country that has given the Church a heavenly army of truly holy and enlightened pastors, It is offensive and demeaning, If we think of the kind of stature and holiness of life which have come in time many models of our Italian episcopate. And you already understand that this single quote has touched his heart like an arrow of the cupid mass-media secularists and those of the left Radical-chic, the anticlerical Freemasons and that today cry out all together: "Living Francesco … The Punisher !». Certain, you could say that the Holy Father also said some other things, but the fact remains that the newspapers all over the world, the message that is passed, He was yet another rebuke to Italian bishops and priests. And here it is questionable: misses the communicator to communicate or the media to report what they only pleases? Anyhow, there is the risk of a … “competition guilty”.

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In its approach with the Bishops of Italy unfortunately it is known that the Pope lacks the sense of proportion, in addition to being burdened, as I wrote and explained several times, the typical anti-Roman prejudices that are differently but similarly own a certain German clergy and Latin American. And a sense of proportion, together with the objective reality, would require to assess and recognize the fact that the Italian one - albeit burdened with many problems, defects and congenital defects - remains and is still the best in the world episcopate, especially from a pastoral and doctrinal point of view.

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Alexander VI
Rodrigo Borgia painting, the Pope Alexander VI [1492-1503]

It's true that in the course of our history, in very complex social periods we have had questionable power figures as the Cardinals Orsini families, Farnese, Borghese, Column, Chigi, of’ Doctors ... but it is true that if the Church has survived and if Rome did not the end of Constantinople became Istanbul with its great cathedral converted into a mosque, we owe it to great men like Pope Alexander VI, whose life in general and in particular his private was all a program; but that does not prevent him to be a defender of the faith and doctrine. And if today in Buenos Aires and if there is an archdiocese in Argentina there is a Catholic Church, what it should not be certainly the Indians nor to the poor villas miseries but it must also and above all to the questionable power figures as the Cardinals Orsini families, Farnese, Borghese, Column, Chigi, of’ Doctors ... the subjects perhaps less "political" than it is showing instead of being the Holy Father Francis, and why I'll explain it ...

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... The most unabashedly rich Church, indeed opulent in its richness, not is Italian but the German one. And this wealth is so great and that parishes can afford to pay salaries even the members of the parish council and catechists.

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church tax
attraverso la Kirchensteur, the cult fee, The German Catholic Church comes to perceive up to 10 billion euro per year

In Rome I received the sacred orders of the diaconate or priesthood only a few days away from my German colleague, dear friend and fellow student. A few months later, when after the summer he made his return to Rome from Germany and met again, I am talking about this and that I came to find out that my first salary received by Ente Livelihood Clergy stood at 740 Euro, her equal to 2.860. Along with this "first salary", German brother also felt all so-called "extra", because every pastoral service and the administration of certain sacraments or Holy Mass celebration, behaved precise and mandatory fees. So my brother was receiving in total on 3.400 € per month approximately, no food expenses, accommodation, supplies payable, etc …

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a pastor with 25 years of service, Germany arrives to take salary between 5.000 and the 6.000 € per month, totally free of charges, fully covered by the parish.

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in the seventies a single German parish was able to maintain a full missionary dioceses in Latin America

In the seventies, a single German parish, thanks to relationship proportion that existed between the German mark and the currencies of other countries, He was able to maintain itself an entire missionary dioceses in Brazil. And having said that someone wonders why the Theology of Liberation was born in the North of Europe and was then incubated by German theologians between Brazil and many other countries of Latin America? Liberation Theology - and not only that - was incubated by the barrel of money Germans; the Germans themselves today, romanofobi more than ever, always they want to hit a barrel of money the Italian episcopate and the clergy.

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Germany, below followed by the United States of America, It has always been the largest contributor to the Holy See; in recent times it has run added as a large taxpayer to the Korean Catholic Church, which is also very rich, having Catholicism developed in that country in the higher walks of life and rich. It is no coincidence that the country has received the apostolic visit of the last Popes, including the reigning Pontiff lover of the poor, refugees and existential suburbs, which I am not to have spent a sigh on living standards conducted by many Korean priests, most of whom come from the upper middle class of families, in particular those that, overflowing with money, They come to study in Rome.

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What it is called IOR, the Institute of Religious Works, the so-called Vatican Bank, in fact a German bank, because the stores are located at a Frankfurt bank. So we can say that the Germans, in a sense, "Administer" also funds of the Holy See.

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After seeing in the churches of Germany liturgical abuses of all sorts, arbitrary discipline of the Sacraments ... or worse "vescovesse"Lutheran Guests at the Mass were invited to do the homily on the Gospel ... rightly I wondered: "... But if you know everything in Rome, because they have never done anything?». And soon I realized that they had never done anything for the simple fact that the Germans reggon the strings of the bag. And as we know, unfortunately,, God is for some "one, Trine and penny ...“!

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Pope republic
La Repubblica, the quintessence of anti- radical chic now become the official organ of the Holy See

If the Holy Father to ask the reproaches, then here it is that only caters to Italian clergy. Perhaps because our bishops have not informed that in Italy, not a few pastors of indigent communities - which are by no means few - are forced to ask for help to the old retired parents to pay the electricity bill of the parish house. And if the Holy Father wants to possibly summon me, when I went to him with the accounts in hand I could explain to him that I could never survive 800 euro per month salary received Ente Livelihood Clergy, if I had not always been my mother and my brother who support me, so that their son and their brother priest to lead a life by what are the patterns of human dignity and serve well as more about the Church and the People of God; What the latter pressing much to my family, but that apparently does not press instead much to my Main.

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we know well both the flaws of our bishops and those of our clergy, but we recognize them with due sense of proportion based on facts, that these are: our bishops and our priests, before the Bishops' Conferences of the world and their priests who are now completely lost in the concrete facts, It remains one of the best Bishops Conferences of the world.

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carrot and stick
Italian episcopate stick and carrot German episcopate

hurts a lot that when it comes to wealth and administration of goods, the Holy Father uses the mace with the Italian episcopate and the clergy, but utters a sigh on the German clergy, whose wealth is truly opulent, time and how much it is that of the Italian Church, but most of his clergy.

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Having said that it might be questioned: politically what unites Rodrigo Borgia, the Supreme Pontiff Alexander VI and Jorge Mario Bergoglio, the Holy Father Francis? Because it seems that both, after centuries from their election, one thing in common we have it: having treated with an eye focused their so-called voters .... From one of the worst-bishops theologians quoted in glory by the Holy Father Francis before the square broadcast worldwide within days of his election: Cardinal Walter Kasper, namely the presumed pious soul that perhaps, together with other related disastrous, He suggested that he go to celebrate, in 2017, not the centenary of the apparitions of Our Lady of Fatima, my pseudo “reform” heresiarch Luther. And before the heresies spread by those who broke communion with the Church, which remains a mystery of faith for a, saint, Catholic and Apostolic, we do not then just nothing to celebrate, as he mentioned by the great man of Cardinal Gerhard Ludwig Müller, prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in one of perhaps the most tragic moments of our ecclesial and church history [cf. WHO].

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In the past I wrote in tones of regret and alarm that the Holy Father Francis is changing the "personality" of the Italian episcopate with the appointment of bishops who are his true clones, only able to speak - viepiù with nauseating flattery - of existential suburbs, of refugees and poor. What this leads me to express the particular words of esteem and deep and sincere priestly devotion towards Metropolitan Archbishop of Genoa, Cardinal Angelo Bagnasco, President of the Italian Bishops:

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Angelo Bagnasco
Cardinal Angelo Bagnasco, Metropolitan Archbishop of Genoa and President of the Italian Episcopal Conference

"Eminence Father Cardinal, will not be long that we, with a heavy heart and tears in my eyes risogneremo recent times in which we as a reference point and pastoral equilibrium models extraordinary men like her. Tomorrow we will live in your memory and feel dramatically your lack. And those who, like myself, at times they have treated harshly, repent - but if that's why I'm already regretting - of having been strict with you and make your old age less suffering COMING to kiss his hand and telling you with deep devotion that in truth you were authentic Church Fathers; and we'll tell sincere and convinced after trying the worst of it on our skin of priests faithful to the Holy Church of Christ and his teaching is now preparing '.

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Meantime, doing my new exhortation of the Holy Father, I decided to sell my Porsche sports. Perhaps they could buy the Franciscan Friars Minor, if the Swiss judiciary the unlocked accounts that had them frozen in a Swiss bank as a result of financial transactions not very clean. And all these financial embezzlements carried out in the name of Mona Poverty, They occurred just as Minister General of the Order, for nine years, was he who, as Franciscan and as poverello, the Holy Father wished Archbishop Secretary of the Congregation for Religious, always on the basis of the principle: the poor and poverty ahead of everything, so it's good to appoint certain offices poverty who know her well; and commendable poverty Holy Spirit showed contempt towards the Devil's dung, the money, why put a safe distance in Swiss banks.

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We Italian priests are very jealous of our Bishops, as our Bishops have always been jealous of their priests, all in a deep and ancient bond of loyalty. It's this one holy jealousy It is the result of our twenty centuries of Christian history Italian, a wet history by the blood of martyrs and fortified by the genius of our saints. And all together, Bishops and priests, we would be Holy Gelosi the reigning Pontiff, if not his favorite sport was to take slaps in the face, not to correct us, but only to please the world, to please everything that has always been non-Christian, to be applauded at every given his slap on our faces by an army of post-communist party animals, Masons and liberal capitalists …

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from The Island of Patmos, 18 May 2016

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About isoladipatmos

31 thoughts on "We stand by the Italian bishops. C.E.I to the Holy Father invites the “poverty”. The Father Ariel is selling his Porsche and the opportunity to request pardon to Cardinal Angelo Bagnasco

  1. Studies, formations, experiences, very different sensitivities in the theological and sociological.
    always esortativo, proactive, an older brother than a teacher, under the methodological and motivational aspect, Benedict XVI cited the example of the Holy Curé of Ars and the magisterium of St. G.P. II on the formation of the clergy.
    http://w2.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/it/letters/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_let_20090616_anno-sacerdotale.html
    Authoritarian and angry, as opposite to a withholding recalcitrant audience and little sensitive to stimulus, more than by strict father struggling with unruly children, Pope Francis “ha strigliato” : follow the approach Camara.
    Fiat voluntas Dei!

  2. wonderful article.
    By accident I came across Sat2000 which aired bread and water, really shabby, there was a guy who made fun of a Spanish cardinal, without saying the name, for a reception in which he had participated in the Vatican, extolling the Pope that he would clubbed. All topped off by an audience composed of lay and religious cheering. Truly a disgusting thing in tone Maoist, here is how the 8 is spent×1000 to fatten these Radical chic. Good thing this tv watch it in a few and only serves to make a living of the recommended monsignori crafty, the really smart ones.

  3. … as I said yesterday in private with a much more articulate speech, I am very concerned about my mother, that is about to come to 80 years and that begins to be sick. I'm worried about her, obvious, but also for me.
    Been fact the situation of my country parish and meet even my modest revenue.
    Mia mamma, with his boarding house, He has always taken steps to do the shopping and pay the bills of light and the rectory gas, and, if anything, even give some money to some poor man.
    Here … losing my mom, per me, as pastor of a parish at all rich, It would be a huge financial loss.
    What are you saying … in case of difficulty, call a vescovessa lesbian Lutheran to preach in the parish and ask for help at the same time the institution livelihood clergy of Germany, since you pocciano 10 billion euro per year on their federal republic?

  4. Mt. 11, 17.24
    «”We played the flute and you have not danced, we wailed, and you did not mourn. John came, neither eating nor drinking, and they said: He has a demon. Now is the Son of Man, eating and drinking, and they say: “Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of publicans and sinners!. But wisdom is vindicated by her deeds”. Then he began he to upbraid the cities wherein he had made the most of his mighty, because they did not repent: “Guai a te, Chorazin! Guai a te, Bethsaida. Why Is That, if in Tyre and Sidon they had been done the miracles that were done among you, some time would have repented, ago in sackcloth and ashes. Well I tell you: Tyre and Sidon in the day of judgment will have a fate than for you. E tu, Cafarnao, Will you be exalted to heaven? Until you will fall to the underworld! Why Is That, if in Sodom they had occurred the miracles performed in you, Today it still exist! So I say: The day of judgment will have a fate than for you!”».

    _________________

    I think it's all written above …
    Certain, we must admit that Jesus uses a very little language “merciful”, a language that does not seem to be touched by “tenderness”, who knows: He has perhaps afraid of Jesus … teneressa ? And then even Jesus speaks of judgment, of punishment, of hell and punishment …
    But that aggressive language, catastrophic, but mostly just merciful!

    Father Michael

  5. Radical Radio has announced that Pannella is dead. Condolences media unanimous.
    humanly goodbye, Christian piety and a prayer for him.

    1. Dear Ettore.

      Tonight at 17.30 I celebrated a Holy Mass of suffrage for the poor soul of Giacinto, better known as Marco Pannella.
      I hope I've done the same that … gigione Father Federico Lombardi, who would have done better, instead of making statements that made, to pray for a soul potentially at risk.

      we all know – and we repeat – that the judgment is closed in God's heart, but we know also that Pannella has not followed a path that will lead in itself and by itself, I do not say to eternal bliss, but even in the most peripheral part of the Purgatory.

      Everything, however, remains a mystery wrapped in the mystery of grace and mercy of God, because none of us can know what happened, also only a few minutes before death, between that poor soul and God.

      And although no one has told the press room of the Holy See, one thing is certain: It is absolutely not advisable, for the salvation, live as he lived Pannella and professing what he has professed for life.

      May the divine mercy grant him at least Purgatory.

      1. Dread, outcry, a real ruckus they caused, and are causing the words - from sen escaped – Father Lombardi, usually well mannered, very skilled, prudent interpreter and persuasive spokesman of the Vatican communications - always faithful to Manzoni's recommendation of "quell truncate, troncare driver ". Injury of the trade?
        Eccesso very di? so much so!. Hard to stem the dissident voices.
        Sic transit gloria mundi.

  6. … and together with porsche, you may also have the priest in cassock as a driver?
    This sale is a joke, natural! But you, before becoming a priest, There really were going on porsche, This is not a joke.
    … Jokes aside, I have been so bad for that speech, so much, so much!

  7. A clarification on the financing of the Churches in Germany: you pay a fee, it is true, who he was moved to the Churches, but this is done on the basis VOLUNTARY… Let me explain, the payment is, I know that, I declare myself a Catholic or Lutheran… if I declare myself an atheist or an agnostic or at least indifferent to the various churches NOT to pay…

    In Italy the 8 per thousand is deducted from the income tax of ALL taxpayers and distributed proportionally to the choices of taxpayers… if I do not make the choice, because they are atheist agnostic or indifferent, also 8 per thousand than I pour in the form of tax is divided in proportion to the choices made at national level between the various churches…

    In Germany I can NOT pay the fee and that means public declaration of not belonging to any church (and then, obviously, I would not have the right to use the services of any church services)… In Italy, on the contrary, in any case PAG; if I do not make the choice 8 per thousand tax on my income goes to ALL the churches and the state in proportion to the choices made at national level … that is, in Italy the I fund all… I Prefer Germany

    1. Dear Beppe.

      Basically things are as you say, but I assure you that in Germany are even more complex than you might think.
      I will explain with a sad example.
      In July 2010, in a city of Germany I administered to a Sacramento that does not require to be administered in case of need, the authorization granted to a visitor from the Ordinary Diocesan priest or whoever else; Sacramento and this was the anointing of the sick.

      The man who received the sacrament was a patient in the terminal phase, admitted to a hospital, at which it is the pastor of the area, his assistant, and the chaplain who visited the Clinical Center, They had refused to grant the sacraments.
      The reason was due to the fact that the patient had been deleted years ago in protest from the lists of the Catholic Church, thereby ceasing to pay the required fee. And it was canceled because, after reporting a case of sexual harassment to the detriment of a minor ecclesiastical authority, he found himself beating first on a rubber wall, then on a concrete wall.
      The fact that this man was right and that was by no means a psychopath in the mood to accuse a priest, was proven by the fact that years later, This German priest, moved unobtrusively in Austria by agreement between its bishop and an Austrian bishop, He ended not only denounced, but arrested by the Austrian police and sentenced by the courts of that country.

      This the reason for which, this faithful, He was canceled in protest by refusing to pay the tax.

      In many churches “Catholic” Germany are violated in the worst way the canonical rules and the Discipline of the Sacraments: i have seen “intercomunioni” the Protestants, evangelical pastors preach from the pulpits of Catholic churches. I even saw a so-called “vescovessa“, guest at a Mass “ecumenical”, invited to give the homily on the Gospel.

      I have seen “mixed celebrations” where Protestants were present to receive Communion with Catholics, etc. … etc.…

      I state that, canonically speaking, «concelebration of the Eucharistic Sacrifice with ministers of ecclesial communities which do not have apostolic succession and do not recognize the sacramental dignity of priestly ordination», It is a crime against the sacrament of the Eucharist, and as such falls between serious offenses [art. 3 § 4. see WHO]. And these serious offenses are sins for which absolution is reserved to the Apostolic See.

      Not pay the tax to the Church, instead, It is not a crime against the faith, especially if it comes from a protest based on a reason unfortunately proved entirely true.

      The German bishops, do not care about the fact that many of their priests – and I mean many, and not just some – make genuine crimes against the Eucharist, for which canonical penalties and sanctions are provided for serious, and consider the motu … their, as a real apostasy from the faith does not scucirgli money through religious tax.

      When the man died, I celebrated the funeral obsequies, outside of Mass, at the cemetery.

      At the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, always lies, six years now, the detailed account of the affair, indicated with the deceased, his own story, the priests who refused to administer the sacraments, then the diocese where it all took place and the bishop who at the time ruled it.

      According to her, They have done something?
      to me, they never answered.

      How do you see things are more complicated, but above all more scandalous than you might think.
      And while, Rome is silent.

      As regards the 8x1000, things are not as you say.
      Indeed, by ticking the appropriate box of choice, she can give its share to one of the religions recognized by the state, or no, then decide that his contribution back to the state.
      In the event to, does not happen any redistribution.

      1. “As regards the 8x1000, things are not as you say.
        Indeed, by ticking the appropriate box of choice, she can give its share to one of the religions recognized by the state, or no, then decide that his contribution back to the state.
        In the event to, does not happen any redistribution”

        That's just what I'm saying… In Italy 8×1000 in each case it is given to someone: to one of the Churches (that I choose) or to the State (if you choose the State in place of one of the churches or (if I do not make any choice) my 8×1000 It must be divided in proportion to the choices expressed at the level of the nation to the Churches and the State. Germany is a tax that, IF I WANT, I pay to the Church more I like it, and – if I do not like it any – NOT PAY (and of course with that very hereby NOT belong to any church and then, RIGHTLY, I can not use the services of any church… I my 8×1000 I would NOT give it to anyone; in Italy can not… in Germania – where the fee is higher – if I want to NOT THE PAGO

        1. “As regards the 8x1000, things are not as you say. Indeed, by ticking the appropriate box of choice, she can give its share to one of the religions recognized by the state, or no, then decide that his contribution back to the state. In the event to, does not happen any redistribution”
          I read more carefully what he wrote. Things in Italy are absolutely NOT like you said. I can choose one of the Churches admitted to subdivision, or I can choose the state (which it is one of the possible options), or – as does more than 50% Italians – make no choice, do not check any box: in this case the 8×1000 relative to what I pay the personal income tax is divided in proportion to the choices made at national level between the Churches and the State… In essence, unlike in Germany, it is the State which allocates 8 x 1000 of personal income tax revenue (general taxation) the churches and eventually to himself. I can simply choose the share that HOWEVER I pay to go to this or that church or the state (and if I do not choose to go all!).

      2. She cites the incidents that I have nothing to say:
        – if Catholics and Lutherans in Germany want to concelebrate, free to do so… that has to do with the financing of the Churches? I know that will pool the offers that each church received…
        – for the poor who also understood his reasons had as it were deleted from the lists of the Catholic Church he knew what this would mean… Is the Church to decide whether to provide its services to those who for various reasons decided to unsubscribe…

      3. Personally I prefer the German system which allows me not to pay anyone because I am agnostic and indifferent (and then keep me in your pocket contributions and therefore do not enjoy the services of any church because they do not want them)

        In Italy things are as I say (and not as you say): the contribution is mandatory or in a church or the state; the state appears as an option next to the Catholic Church,and other permitted Churches; if I choose the Church cattolicaa copntributo goes to the Catholic Church; if I choose the contribution goes to the Church Valdese Waldensian and so’ via; if I CHOOSE state my contribution goes to the state, if I do not choose my 8 NOTHING×1000 It must be in proportion to all (the 7/8 confessions admitted and the State, I repeat: in proportion to the preferences expressed at the national level; the Catholic Church sdi pockets so even a percentage of the contribution of those who DO NOT express preferences) … Then you tell!!!

        1. The respondent must not inquire much less learn from her, because it is she who does not have the good sense, least of humility, to understand and to realize that the reader who explained what was to be explained is a specialist in the specific economic sector, finance and tax subject of this thread.
          Therefore, if instead of learning something, does beading of arrogance, please go elsewhere Beading.

          1. I see, padre Arie, which erased instead publish my response. I'm aware most of his accountant expert (and humility and common sense to you is missing). I repeat that over 50% Italian citizens NOT expressed some preference on the allocation of 8×1000, and that this 50% It is divided in proportion to the preferences expressed at the national level among 8 for the delivery (7 religious confessions and State). So the Catholic Church appropriates a good percentage (circa 70%) of the shares of those who did not express preference (only the Assemblies of God and the Apostolic Church renounce this percentage in favor of the state). Can control, if ever he filled, on the model 740 or Unico.
            I prefer the German system: I declare myself a Catholic? well, l'pay 8% (not the 8xmille!) to my Church; I am agnostic? I do not pay any, and I keep my money in my pocket and my spiritual needs I'll…

    2. (Beppe)

      His explanation is only partially correct and, in my humble opinion, It helps create further confusion.

      The 8 × 1000 Italian is not a mechanism contributory but a mechanism distributive. The church tax German and Austrian is a contributory mechanism linked to an individual citizen's option.

      In Italy I can choose the destination of the eighth part per thousand IRPEF. Let's say on a gross 2000 EUR, that personal income tax is 500 EUR, with 8 × 1000 mechanism I decide that 4 EUR (of those 1000) will ex.g. the Catholic Church.
      My contribution revenue remains pero 500 (and not 504) EUR.

      Germany pago additionally an additional fee (8% the 9% Income Tax) on my tax.
      Taking the above example now, next IRPEF, which is supposedly identical (500 EUR), I will have 'also church tax (40 EUR). My contribution revenue will therefore 540 (and not 500) EUR.
      Ie in Italy gain 2000, I state fee 500, I I take away 1500 and decide whether the 8 × 1000 go to DC.
      In Deutschland guadagno 2000, I state fee 540, the state will pass 40 the CC, I I take away 1460.

      Missing to explain how you configure the option I mentioned above. In Germany (e in Austria) is mandatory declare the registrar at the time
      enrollment in the civil registers of the municipality of residence (compulsory at 8 days after arriving in the town) their religious affiliation.

      If the person concerned declares RK (Roman Catholic) o EV (Protestant) snaps automagicamente the counting procedure of church tax. The employer receives such information and shall count the monthly deductions.
      If the person concerned declares "without confession"/ Without religion, he / she is not subject to tax.
      Therefore: I'm going to live in Nuremberg, I'm going to record together and declare the RK form, snaps the tax that remains to change jobs and / or residence.

      The only way to stop paying the fee is a formal declaration (in front of the registrar) that you want to proceed when leaving the Church (exit).

      It p. Ariel has already shown such ports with consequences if the 'exit. The German Bishops' Conference agreed that those who have come out in this way by the Catholic Church, for example, can not receive the sacrament of anointing of the sick.

      On the sidelines of the Island I would like to ask the Fathers of Patmos if this prohibition does not comes dangerously close to the sin of simony – indeed I would like to know the theological foundation of this prohibition.

      An eventual reintegration into the Catholic Church is performed again in a formal way and could result in the payment of all or part of church tax for the period of “exit” by the Church.

      I refrain from any comment, although I would have many, how many are the doubts and questions that this system puts me. And not so much as just sharing (monetary) needs of the Church (cf. Catechism of Pius X), As for what mindset I believe distorted and distorting it genres.
      I wanted to write for clarity and truth on deadline
      (Bungling and refrain wasters)

  8. Anyway, I think the record of the bad facts masters go for good by Pope Francis, It was when he said that Don Lorenzo Milani was “a great educator”:

    http://www.donlorenzomilani.it/

    …while the prior of Barbiana had overt classist tendencies, sanguinarie, in favor of armed struggle and even pedophile, see here

    https://lafilosofiadellatav.wordpress.com/2014/04/18/don-lorenzo-milani-maestro-buono/.

    And so the Pope even more messed Florence and Tuscany, already prey to cattocomunisti – for which Don Milani rightly is an icon – from time immemorial.

    1. mini-essay on the wickedness of the Tuscan, bastards deep in the soul, first of all between them

      Dear Reader.

      For inguaiare Florence there was absolutely no need of the Holy Father Francis, why the Fiorentini (ie tusci) They are inguaiati and tend to inguaiarsi and inguaiare since the sixteenth century. Everything I say this as Tuscan Etruria, for I am an old etrusco e not a parvenu blank and as such I claim my free right to the poor esteem for a city of art which is self-limited to a mall for Japanese who are bidonati by selling Chinese trinkets.
      And with this I have said everything.

      A further blow to their city, Florentines they gave it to the nineteenth and twentieth century, thanks mainly to families “in“, composed mainly of noble and anti-clerical Freemasons, who could not be and feel truly noble though they were not insanguati through marriages with british. The result was that whole areas of the city dating from the fourteenth / seventeenth century were demolished for building houses and villas in liberty-British style, neo-pseudo-Gothic and so on.

      But the speech was long and my “ferocious malice” always rise more of speech in speech, because before the Florentines and their arrogance atavistic fiorentinocentrica risk of losing even more distant glimmer of Christian charity. And not to mention those who are certain contemporary expressions of the Florentine Catholic world, of which … he paradigm que'i’ bischero de i'Matteo Renzi .

      I never liked Don Lorenzo Milani and badly digested when the teenager forced us to study in middle schools, Thanks to teachers from all penalty by Catholic but not from the ranks of the Communist Party. But I can not accept the grave and unjust accusation of pedophilia to it addressed.
      In an institution that inspired him there have been cases of pedophilia many years after his death, It is not attributable in any way to the Prior of Barbiana.

      1. Dear and esteemed Father Ariel,
        from Florence, as adoption, I can not but agree with you on the bad temper of my fellow brothers. Adding to what you said, that the collapse is still since before, rather the fourteenth century , that is, from the Renaissance – of which Florence was the most cradle – by man that pride that led to the Protestant Revolution, Enlightenment, and then following the French Revolution and all subsequent Ambaradan that we know well. How long, in note modernity, I would point out that now Florence, Milan, Rome… in this sense they are equal: everywhere, the people was decerebration from power.
        We can say that the “donmilanismo” It is inscribed in this line. No coincidence that in my previous statement, I talked about “trends”: Don Milani preached – his words! – the shedding of blood of the bourgeoisie and the armed struggle, even if the person has never picked up a gun. It remains a bad master. Equally, he proudly claims here http://www.ilcovile.it/scritti/COVILE_878_Forteto_5_Lettera_don_Milani.pdf its tendency pedophile. Therefore…

  9. dear brother.
    Congratulations. I share and endorse.
    But we must admit that with you “sense of proportion” They have used it, and they used him well. I know, indeed, that none of our ecclesiastical superiors have ever longed for her your writings, and everything is due, I believe, all'uso of” sense of proportion” that, if your, They have correctly applied, silent and, perhaps, giving who knows how many times right inside themselves, or in their private talks.
    Indeed, if you are silent before our brothers like the following that you point, who could dare to issue a sigh, for what of theologically, doctrinally and pastorally correct you for some time write?

    http://palermo.blogsicilia.it/muore-pannella-e-non-bagnasco-la-frase-di-don-fabrizio-fiorentino/339018/

    http://www.pastoralefamiliare.diocesipa.it/index_file/fabriziofiorentino.htm

    Congratulations to all the Island.

    Don Salvatore (Palermo)

    1. Dear Brother.

      I fear that “also” with priests of this kind, everyone and rigor with biographies in which you proclaim past pupils or “aftereffects” of Blessed Pino Puglisi, the newly elected Archbishop of Palermo will have to run a lot; and I fear that will not be enough – to run – the bike with which he toured recently collegiate for the presbytery there of Metropolitan Cathedral [cf. WHO]

  10. One day, the Italian Bishops will thank you for these, and many other your words.
    For now, I thank you, although my thanks is small change …

    1. Dear Brother.

      Your words are so abundant and sufficient point that as I prayed a moment ago in compline, I could tell how old Simeon:

      Now let your servant, Domine,
      according to thy word in peace;:
      For my eyes have seen your salvation
      Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people;:
      A light to lighten the Gentiles,
      and the glory of thy people Israel.

      [now let, O Lord, your servant
      depart in peace, according to thy word,
      For my eyes have seen your salvation,
      you prepared in sight of all peoples,
      light for revelation to the Gentiles
      and for glory to your people, Israel]

  11. Father Ariel Caro.
    Did I cross three times 16 and 17 c.m, sebben purtroppo, mine “Nordic modesty”, He prevented me to have a chat with you.
    I am secretary of a bishop and the CEI days I was in Rome with him.
    In the morning you came in the dining room of the hotel with your religious assistant, and before you sit down to sit next to my table you greeted me and said “sorry if I turn my back”. Inside of me I said, “good heavens, that lord!”.
    Sin! I did not have the courage to say that I read all your articles.
    Then I saw you come out of the classroom Paul VI at the Vatican with Bishop. Negri, that you have accompanied since the gate of the Swiss, and passing a short distance from me, I was there, I heard three words filled … of …. color that made me laugh all day, But I realized that the bishop should have you love him very much. And in the afternoon I I still saw a short distance, while you accompagnavi your bishop, good impression in person.
    the will, my bishop (that it also reads) I said … “I saw Father Ariel”. He asked me … “that type is?”. I told him that, style and figure, Respond to your written.
    Next time, I take courage and stop you. For now, thank you, very much, why your article, on which, every comment, It would be a useless surplus.

    1. Dear Brother.

      I also remember you. Next time I'll help you get out of your shyness venendoti meeting.

      If by chance, during that our loving transit courtroom Paul VI to the railing that overlooks the Piazza of the Holy Office, as we walked as the two holy martyrs Perpetua and Felicitas, has come to you some ear “word full of color”, in which case I will not be responsible to load the Archbishop of Ferrara, Imagine, I'm at the point-fearing and modest that if in my presence someone says “poop”, Immediately I blush like a schoolgirl of a college of the Ursuline late nineteenth century, if anything, even at the risk of losing consciousness.

  12. Hello friends, may I ask why you have not published my comments yesterday, regarding the matter of Pope Francesco, Poverty is the Gospel etc. etc.?

    Thanks.

    1. Dear Achille.

      This is the only message that has reached us from her, his other messages not arrived.
      When he wrote them, It is sure to get it done properly sending?
      Can still rimandarceli no problem.

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