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The website of this magazine and the editions take name from the Aegean island in which the Blessed Apostle John wrote the Book of the Apocalypse, isola also known as «the place of the last revelation»
«God revealed the secrets of others ALTIUS»
(in higher than the others, John has left the Church, the arcane mysteries of God)
The bezel used as the cover of our home page is a 16th century fresco by Correggio. preserved in the Church of San Giovanni Evangelista in Parma
creator of the website of this magazine:
MANUELA LUZZARDI
Rest puzzled by the activity demonstrated by today's church in redoing a series of translations of songs that have gone so well for centuries. The Lord's Prayer seems to me misleading. But I must say that I always creates a repulsive motion the new Annunciation: my prof. of the gymnasium letters she would make a blue segnaccio who had translated “pulpit” between two people who meet with “raising, rejoice”. And I find (will that my grandfather was a veterinarian) that the use of the verb “cover up” to explain the Conception is a city problem that should have been avoided…..
One last observation (the very last, then I close, also because I have already almost regretted by my previous comments in reread, and I would want to redo): if they bring it to the extreme the reasoning that led to the proposed change in translation, all become prayers of “way to doubt” God and his goodness. For instance: “Come your kingdom”? Can we doubt that there will be? So why do we pray that?
But rest in the belief that the translation …traditional non …induced at the layman to be false images of God. I think that intuitively grabbed meaning and all its corollaries, as always it was in the past, regardless of whether it was then able to process them in a speech. More than charitable solicitude towards others (including more with “a”capital, for the love of God!!!) I think this whole thing is created by ideology, regardless of how he lived the Pope in person.
…If someone has already said
Given that I am opposed to change, if you wanted to avoid any ambiguity in the understanding of the verb “induce” you could, in my opinion, translate the expression in a much more simple and clear. “induce” in Italian actually it has lost the original meaning from the Latin “in-lead” that is “to introduce” O “bring in” O “to penetrate” to mean only “push”.
However “induce” in today's meaning “push” holding the end of a complement: if he says “lead to + verb”, O “induce or + noun”. So the ambiguity in fact should not exist.
In the original greek and Latin is a kind of expressive play between “And lead us not”, the “deliver us” and the conjunction adversative “ma”:
“and not BRING IN (temptations, the evidence) BUT (Rather) us out (when we will subject)”.
Losing the echo of this opposition, However, while maintaining substantially the sense, although perhaps not in all its richness, It could therefore translate easily (and suitable for the mythical people):
“and keep us away from temptation and deliver us from evil”.
P.S. – I do not know if…
With regards whether or not to implement new translations of writing that modify the meaning of songs than as the Magisterium has always interpreted them, I under a copy paste of certain statements of Cardinal. Müller drawn from this recent interview:https://www.lifesitenews.com/blogs/interview-cdl.-mueller-on-abuse-crisis-and-its-link-to-homosexuality-in-pri
“The Magisterium of the bishops and the Pope are in the Word of God in Scripture and Tradition, and serve Him. It is not a Catholic to say that the Pope as an individual person receives directly from the Holy Spirit Revelation and who now can interpret it according to their whims while everything else should follow him blindly and silently.”
Stumble as written by Father Giovanni Cavalcoli on the same subject:
http://www.libertaepersona.org/wordpress/2018/11/la-tentazione-al-peccato-e-i-suoi-rimedi/
I share with Don Ariel, with Nicola Bux,with Ms Dorothy of Co-workers of the truth,theologian with Barzaghi, and with others.
Barzaghi for me is the center, because if we talk about the latest petition, then we are at chest, Heart of Jesus Christ. So how can we dare Pietro “to attempt” One who,until the fifth petition,It allowed or wanted we were tempted(almost the same, perhaps, for the Almighty and infinitely good that does not attempt to evil for evil).
This profound sense objective,perhaps. We explain, however,,each, Also starting from their own experience, because of all we may be inexperienced, but not into temptation. Yet so far only Barzaghi I found that he does, while leaning … Pietro, perhaps out of modesty, or delicate reserve to other least developed, not only for the rest is subjective autorità.Il, for instance:perseverance in sin = = damping force of acquired habit (weakness,infirmity) or aggravating (the case rightly indicated by Aquinas?), This competes with Jesus Cristo.Ancora:what kind of temptation? Of seduction or discouragement? Compete to Jesus Christ.
We are in the subjective.
father ariel, It has forgotten that it would now be necessary to adapt to the new translation even numbers 2846, 2847, 2848 e 2849 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church?
prejudice p. Ariel,
thank you for the article. However I do not see any mention of the Italian word 'temptation’ that we find in the greek 'peirasmon'. From the studies I've done, It is my humble opinion that the key is not the verb but the noun 'peirasmon’ to be indicted, we say, and thus a source of clumsy revision attempts like the one in place.
See s. Jerome had translated well using 'tentationem’ for greek peirasmon, the Italian translation of tentationem is inaccurate (precisely because it translates the Latin rather than the greek) as peirasmos more than tempting (or better: over temptation) it means test, understood as a test.
That being the case, that is, considering that tentazionem become test, we will have no problem to use the verb 'to lead to' / 'lead to’ why we would ask the Father not to submit to the test because our weakness is such that even the minimum would make us fall.
I would like to have your opinion about what has just been said.
I extend fraternal greetings
Peter was,
I understand what you mean, I will try to explain as best I can: the text of Our father which we know we are littered throughout the biblical and liturgical Hebrew literature, It is completely irrelevant that there is a papyrus with this prayer dating back to the first century d.C, Whereas the sense of Our father It is part of Jewish culture even before the birth of Christianity.
The text is in fact collected in the Bible and in the various ברכות berachot (blessings) nei Kaddish kaddishim e nelle Tflot tefillot.
If we take a סידור siddur (Jewish prayer book), in various hymns of praise, invocations and benedictions, are all expressions of prayer Our father.
As for editing Glory to God in the highest, please give me a few days time, I will explain why that difference exists between the Lucan phrase "Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace among those whom he loves", by the words "Glory to God in the highest and on earth peace to men of good will", hymn that comes into use in the liturgy in the third century, and only in the fifth century has made it mandatory to sing every Sunday.
Hello Father Ariel,
First of all thank you for the explanations that she and her brothers always we provided on this website.
Given that I share fully the contention on the subject, But I wanted to ask some explanations. They probably are not adequately informed me – and then I get back to its competence -, but I thought that one of the oldest sources of the Gospels, therefore the Lord's Prayer, They existed only in Greek texts. You speak of an Aramaic text.. of what the document is? I repeat, it is mere curiosity, as it were, didactics.
Thank you in advance.
Moreover, Dad, I wanted to ask what you think of changes to Glory?
A similar translation with explanatory / pedagogical ambitions but always verbose and reductionist together, and then inopportune, it should have been “not into temptation IN” (it also says Barzaghi) or “let us not succumb to the temptation”: in fact the result is “but deliver us from evil”. Which is to say: is that the test / temptation – which it is inevitable but also necessary for our salvation – You do not become a prison from which we can not get out. But the words of Jesus, if they are not poetry, however, they have their own poetic poignancy. Jesus himself uses sometimes disconcerting expressions to shake the dust from the minds: But change would mean svigorirle, impoverirle, and then betray. To paraphrase the closed end of the S Gospel. Giovanni, the things spoken by Jesus, the world itself could not contain the comments would be written. In fact there are wonderful. But who we are we to correct the evangelists? Mica have …recordings!
This whole thing has something childish and frivolous together.
To understand the mindset presiding over some perhaps there are raised ingenious rescue some words written by Tocqueville on Socialism: "The third [characteristic of socialism tract] It is a deep distrust of freedom, in human reason; It is a deep disregard for the individual considered in itself, the state of man; what justifies the idea that the state should not be the only company executive, ma, as it were, the teacher, preceptor, the educator of every man; You must always ask yourself beside him, above him, around him, to guide them, keep, restrain; in a word, It is a gradual seizure of human freedom. "
dear fabio,
in all honesty I do not know what to say, certain actions and decisions are now entirely unpredictable.
As for its question, the matter is very delicate, because the Church is the guardian of the sacraments of grace, no mistress.
And no one can affect the substance of the Sacraments. You can edit the accidental external elements, namely the form, for example the setting of the rite, the language used and so on, but not the substance.
Dear Father Ariel
I fear that these changes will inevitably lead to ecumenical mass , that is, to change the words of the consecration, and the end of the Eucharistic Sacrifice.
I do not believe she?
“And don't lead us into temptation, but deliver us from evil!
Amen!”
Thank you, father ariel, for this timely and scientific explanation… it is always good to go to the bottom of things, even though it was already understood that it is a smoke screen of the modernists who have taken possession of the corridors of power in the Catholic Church, to implement their wicked plans. “will not prevail!…”