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[…] altri gruppi” (Faita, 2013). Analogamente si è espresso Ariel Levi di Gualdo nel suo libro “La setta neocatecumenale. Heresy became Kiko and dwelt among us, Ed. L’…” che contesta una “concezione ereticale del sacro mistero eucaristico in parte a una pasqua […]
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The website of this magazine and the editions take name from the Aegean island in which the Blessed Apostle John wrote the Book of the Apocalypse, isola also known as «the place of the last revelation»
«God revealed the secrets of others ALTIUS»
(in higher than the others, John has left the Church, the arcane mysteries of God)
The bezel used as the cover of our home page is a 16th century fresco by Correggio. preserved in the Church of San Giovanni Evangelista in Parma
Creator and editor of this magazine website:
MANUELA LUZZARDI
“if law, books, li regala, chi li riceve in regalo, otto su dieci non li leggono.”
Non è la stessa cosa perché il regalo è subìto non scelto, come invece fa chi con un click può scaricare un libro che lo interessa. E se solo uno su tre (stima pessimistica) lo leggerà, ma i download sono stati 30 000 (stima pessimistica) il libro sarà letto da 10 000 people (più dei 1000 che l’hanno comprato). Senza contare i passaparola.
“Esattamente come molte persone non leggono gli articoli, basta vedere come si lanciano nei commenti, per esempio imputando all’autore dell’articolo cose che non ha mai scritto, … E a questa gente, lei vuol dare anche gratis un libro?”
Yup, e le ribalto completamente il ragionamento. Acquistando un libro si “foraggia” the author; questo è un comodo alibi (anche inconscio) per giustificare il fatto di non volerlo leggere. Con l’accesso libero questa “FIG leaf” cade, così come l’alibi per non entrare nel merito delle questioni. Se qualcuno afferma la presenza di un qualcosa che non c’è nel libro, l’autore può ribattere immediatamente che questo non c’è citando direttamente pagina, riga dei punti in questione nel libro stesso.
Qui siamo nel mio campo e quindi mi posso permettere di controbattere.
“Non ce lo possiamo permettere di fare ciò che lei suggerisce.
Scrivere libri costa molto all’autore, poi costa stamparli, poi costa distribuirli.
La cosa più semplice è acquistarli.”
Lei stesso ha detto che i numeri medi di copie sono nell’ordine delle centinaia. Una volta raggiunta (come nel suo caso) questa soglia l’ “ammortamento” dell’iniziativa è raggiunto e quello che viene dopo è utile netto.
Are, come nel vostro caso, l’obiettivo principale è la massima divulgazione e non il mero profitto, una volta superata la soglia di cui sopra l’accesso libero farebbe esplodere esponenzialmente la diffusione, che è l’obiettivo primario.
Ma anche le vendite dei libri cartacei ne possono beneficiare. In campo scientifico autori che hanno reso disponibili free libri completi hanno verificato che molti compravano poi anche la copia cartacea per facilità di lettura (un nome per tutti: Bruce Eickel). Inoltre sospetto che anche le donazioni sul sito esploderebbero in base al ben noto principio psicologico del contraccambio.
Io sono in cammino da più di 30 anni e ho fatto tutte le tappe, compresa elezione e matrimonio spirituale. However, pur essendo convinto del buono che c’è e che ha portato alla mia vita, sono consapevole che tante cose non vanno, a partire dal narcisismo del capo scendendo giù giù fino alla stupidità e maleducazione violenta di tanti nc troppo circoncisi di mente.
Inoltre non ammetto che si faccia ostracismo su un libro, per quanto critico senza entrare nel merito delle argomentazioni e limitandosi a deprimenti accuse di bassa diffusione. Per questo lancio una provocazione a don Ariel: perché non rendere il libro “open” con file pdf scaricabile gratis dal sito? Con un contatore di download potrà certificare e vedere la diffusione direttamente verificabile del libro (anche tra i NC) schizzare alle stelle; senza contare che da ogni copia scaricata se ne potranno generare moltissime altre con un effetto di reazione a catena.
Posso sbagliarmi ma ritengo che la diffusione dei mamotreti , e delle informazioni e dei libri critici sia l’incubo più o meno espresso di tanti ad alto livello votati all’autoesaltazione a senso unico. Ci pensi seriamente !
Non ce lo possiamo permettere di fare ciò che lei suggerisce.
Scrivere libri costa molto all’autore, poi costa stamparli, poi costa distribuirli.
La cosa più semplice è acquistarli.
Moreover, per esperienza ormai quasi ventennale, le posso dire che se lei, books, li regala, chi li riceve in regalo, otto su dieci non li leggono.
Esattamente come molte persone non leggono gli articoli, basta vedere come si lanciano nei commenti, per esempio imputando all’autore dell’articolo cose che non ha mai scritto, però fremono per fare polemica e per cercare la lite, ed il tutto ripeto – it goes without saying – senza avere letto.
E a questa gente, lei vuol dare anche gratis un libro?
father ariel,
I wanted to say that I appreciate and really do my sincere congratulations for the courage he had to publish his book knowing it would be submerged by the mud of the Neocatechumenal, but perhaps he did not imagine to what extent.
I have been on the Neocatechumenal Way for about 25 year old, in different parishes of several cities (I changed twice on business cities) and I know him well enough The vast majority of walkers are people with a very low cultural level, who believe in all the heresies that is being served up, not having all the tools to understand, discern, kikiani compare the teachings of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, etc…
In this ignorance is accompanied by arrogance and hubris often own devilish. As he experienced on his skin, their wickedness has no limits. Many bishops and priests are afraid to say something negative about their own walk the retaliation of the Neocatechumenal, we know to be targeted and very cruel, ruthless.
But she has had the courage and unfortunately it is paying the consequences.
God bless her, to give glory and give every blessing for his great courage.
Dearest Father Ariel,
leggo le risposte dei tuoi commenti e rido a crepapelle, un prete così vero non mi era mai capitato di incontrarlo,i neocatecumenali hanno trovato un bel osso da rosicare,vai sempre avanti così che prima o poi (spero prima possibile) vincerai la battaglia e noi insieme a Te Dio ti benedica.
Al perspicace FCSF.
Bravo!
Hai fatto felici i tuoi kikatekisti! Con il tuo intelligente commento hai dimostrato di avere circonciso la ragione, di essere senza argomenti, incapace di dialogare, con zero razionalità e voglia di diffamare il nemico. Un tipico neocat che pensa sempre e comunque solo quello che pretendono i suoi kikatekisti.
E’ vero che hai disobbedito a Sankiko tiranno, che vi ha proibito internet, ma, come appunto insegna il Nostro, il fine giustifica i mezzi.
Se vuoi fare carriera e diventare kikatekista anche tu, But, dovrai aggiungere menzogne, insulti e negare sempre e comunque l’evidenza.
E se vorrai essere perfetto, va’, vendi tutti i tuoi beni, dona il ricavato al povero Sankiko scroccone che ha finito le aragoste e poi segui i tuoi kikatekisti e i loro ordini idioti.
Buon girotondo.
Non ha mai lavorato un giorno in vita sua (cf.. San Paolo – chi non lavora neppure mangi).
Vive a scrocco in un appartamento a via di Porta Angelica fronte Vaticano.
Non paga bollette né tasse.
Viene servito e riverito (cf.. il maggiordomo defunto).
Va in vacanza nelle ville dei fedelissimi…..
TIPO ARIEL!!!
TIPO KIKO ARGUELLO!
A me risulta che Padre Ariel prima di diventare sacerdote lavorasse.
E sicuramente non c’è nessuno che gli porta caffè e giornali di tasca sue tutte le mattine.
I and, lo sport nazionale all’interno del cammino e CALUNNIARE E SPARLARE.
Quello lo imparate immediatamente.
Ad inginocchiarvi davanti a Gesù Sacramentato invece vi ci vuole 30 anni e innumerevoli catechesi.
BUFFONI
Massimiliano: “Kiko non ha fatto voto di povertà”.
Sai che scoperta!
Non ha mai lavorato un giorno in vita sua (cf.. St. Paul – chi non lavora neppure mangi).
Vive a scrocco in un appartamento a via di Porta Angelica fronte Vaticano.
Non paga bollette né tasse.
Viene servito e riverito (cf.. il maggiordomo defunto).
Va in vacanza nelle ville dei fedelissimi.
Viaggia esclusivamente in prima classe, a volte con orchestra al seguito.
Pasteggia ad aragoste e fuma solo sigari cubani.
Millanta elemosine quotidiane a botte di 50 Euro (of others, obvious) in contraddizione con l’evangelico “la destra non sappia….”.
Chiede soldi per l’evangelizzazione e poi si scopre che acquista terreni in Israele e appartamenti a Roma (cf.. via Lucrino).
Invece gli adepti sono costretti ogni mese alla decima sui propri guadagni,più collette mensili ordinarie, straordinarie, convivenze e riporti, più le pressioni per vendere oggetti preziosi e beni in favore del Cammino.
Ogni neocat versa alla setta l’equivalente di due mesi di lavoro all’anno.
Sankiko esorciccio invece incassa e basta.
Two weights and two measures.
Massimiliano, perché per difendere il Cammino usate sempre la menzogna?
Maximilian C. (12 October at 1:38)
Sei sempre lo stesso. Qui o sul blog.
Nessuna calunnia.
Per molti anni sono stata nel cammino. Ecco la faccenda dei libri:
Alle convivenze I.C. venivano portati a scatoloni. Ogni responsabile DOVEVA acquistare tante copie quanti erano i fratelli della sua comunità. Pagare e poi rivalersi sui fratelli.
Si diceva che ognuno doveva avere la sua copia anche se marito e moglie e per i figli lo stesso.
E vogliamo parlare di tutto l’altro corredo di kiko/gadget? Sia per le comunità che nelle famiglie per le lodi domestiche e quant’altro! Tutto rigorosamente marcato Kiko?
Per l’elicottero ci sono le foto. Su Osservatorio le trovi. Per alberghi di lusso non solo a Kiko ma all’itinerante di turno e consorte era riservata sempre la suite quando accompagnavano le loro comunità nei vari passaggi. Anche vacanze pagate e di prima categoria.
How many testimonials do you want?
Altro che ultimo posto!
Padre Ariel non riporta cose per sentito dire. Ha testimonianze documentate in gran numero. Vi conviene calmarvi, se no con questo prete vi fate male!
Infine lo pseudonimo è una scelta legittima, ma se Kiko fa uno sforzo comprende bene chi siamo.
Non gli conviene…
Tutto questo mi fa immenso piacere, carissimo Ariel, e credo che sia solo l’inizio.
Qualcuno ha affiancato il suo libro, come fiasco nelle vendite, a quello di Lino Lista. Noi potremmo aggiungere gli scritti di padre Zoffoli, spariti ben presto dalla circolazione.
I santi neocatecumeni in cattiva fede hanno boicottato in ogni modo la diffusione di questi libri, obviously. Essendo un vero e proprio regime il Cammino, nella sua inconsistenza, teme di essere smascherato dalla Verità e sgonfiandosi di lasciare dietro di sé il Nulla.
Lino Lista vide sparire a Roma tutte le copie messe in vendita, perché rilevate dalle librerie cattoliche e fatte sparire, indovinate da chi? A tanto sono arrivati! Lino, dopo questa autentica razzia, non trovava più chi gli pubblicasse il suo libro, tranne la piccola casa editrice “Segno”. Ma il “Fango e il Segreto” ancora oggi è una spina nel fianco del mostro cammino che continua la sua grande missione.
Anche padre Zoffoli è impossibile da reperire, of always.
She, carissimo don Ariel, per noi ex è un dono dal cielo. Dopo tanti anni di silenzio, con il suo prezioso lavoro rilancia una denuncia esplicita, dettagliata, scientifica e autorevole. Il libro lo pubblicate voi stessi, è disponibile in internet sempre.
Ora cosa possono fare?
Devono rodersi e basta, visto che non hanno nessuna intenzione di ravvedersi e prendere la via della conversione, per la salvezza delle loro anime. Unica cosa sacrosanta che dovrebbero fare e anche senza indugiare troppo!
Il tempo ormai si è fatto breve! Ma si sono induriti. Eppure la storia del Faraone la conoscono a memoria, a loro vergogna.
Vedranno quante e quante copie venderà il suo libro sulla Setta di Kiko l’eretico, nella libertà e senza costrizione.
Diamo tempo al tempo.
Sarà per loro un tormento (già lo è) e carboni ardenti sul capo.
Errata corrige:
Devo chiedere scusa perché all’inizio del mio commento volevo scrivere: “carissimo don Ariel” e ho saltato “don”
Scrivo da cellulare con qualche difficoltà, non sempre posso da computer. Tengo molto a questa precisazione, anche se si poteva intuire l’errore, poiché mai mi ero permessa di rivolgermi al Sacerdote chiamandolo solo per nome.
Tanto più che nel Cammino Neocatecumenale è prassi darsi solo del tu, anche con i Vescovi più coinvolti, come facevano Kiko e Carmen dando l’esempio. A mio avviso tale prassi è instaurata ad arte per togliere ogni dignità e azzerare il rispetto dovuto ai ministri ordinati, parificare i rapporti e, visto che anche i sacerdoti devono fare, se accettano il percorso, il cammino come tutti gli altri – scrutini compresi condotti dai kikatechisti Lay – si comprende bene come col tempo vengono ridotti, let's say so, ai minimi termini. È tutta una strategia studiata, la gerarchia nel cammino è tutta laica per il famoso “secondo le linee degli iniziatori”: tutto un programma.
Da questo all’interrogativo terribile e destabilizzante rivolto come un mantra ai seminaristi e ai presbiteri delle equipe “tu obbedisci a noi o al Vescovo” … il passo è breve!
Pax
Pax face,
please, non si preoccupi assolutamente.
Sebbene le confesso che da sempre preferisco essere chiamato “dad”, perché considero il sacerdozio legato a un preciso, specifico e singolare esercizio della paternità universale, while “don” è l’abbreviazione italianizzata di “dominus”, tutt’oggi usata come forma di rispetto anche verso i secolari. Me too, in certe zone d’Italia, in tempi nei quali a tutto pensavo fuorché a diventare un giorno prete, in segno di rispetto mi chiamavano “don”.
He is absolutely right. From now on, come Libera, la chiamerò padre Ariel. Thanks for everything.
Pax
But please…..ecco la clerical band!!!
Take it
Bsbbbsn, o come ti identifichi: pena la fanno i “kiko band”, che al posto di seguire il Signore seguono un santone-fai-da-te, che ha cambiato “ispirazione” per proprio tornaconto, abbandonando i “miserabili” di Palomeras per farsi campare di tutto punto da voi succubi che ormai non riuscite a vedere a mezzo metro dal naso.
Se volete un santone da seguire, liberi di scegliere, ma non venite a dirci che tutto questo è Chiesa. La Chiesa ha una propria struttura, voluta dallo stesso Gesù, e in quella struttura sono previsti sacramenti precisi attraverso i quali lo Spirito Santo vero opera nella vita di coloro che per vocazione “vera” sentono di essere chiamati al sacerdozio.
Se questo non vi sta bene, “kiko band”, seguite pure il vostro santone laico, la cui ispirazione dello Spirito Santo discese un giorno nell’immaginaria visione della Vergine Maria, mai presa in considerazione dalla Chiesa.
Ma non venite a fare ironia “popolare” , voi che invece di seguire la Chiesa di Dio seguite un santone che prende in giro se stesso per primo, e poi tutti voi.
But so be it, finché ci sono polli della “kiko band” che lo idolatrano….
Cosa è? Hai letto gli ultimi commenti? Il disprezzo per i ministri ordinati vigente all’interno dell’esperienza neocatecumenale? Vogliono occupare loro il posto di sacerdoti e vescovi. Si sentono investiti di autorità dall’alto. Un’autorità a cui nessuno può e deve resistere. Inculcano che chi disobbedisce a Kiko disobbedisce a Dio stesso. Che per Kiko passa la volontà di Dio per ciascun adepto. Mentre lui non ha mai obbedito alla Chiesa. Chi crede di essere?
Si permettere di mettere i “its” presbiteri in un conflitto tremendo:
“Tu obbedisci a noi o al Vescovo!”
There are no comments to make. Ho assistito personalmente a questo sinedrio messo su, mi preme precisarlo, da Kiko e Carmen, uno seduto accanto all’altra…e padre Mario lì dormiente.
Pax
Questo che dice, father ariel, mi fa molto piacere, significa che il messaggio “passa”. Questo è importante.
Quel che volevo dire ai signori più sopra, Anyway, era che loro sono sempre a misurare le cose in termini di successi, non a caso li sbandierano sempre ai quattro venti, spesso gonfiandone la portata. E’ il loro metodo.
Io non sono esperta, né mi interesso di editoria, ma quel che lei dice mi rallegra molto.
As I said, ho letto il suo libro tutto d’un fiato e, oltre a ritrovare molte situazioni e circostanze a me tristemente note, ho apprezzato la competenza con la quale ha spiegato certe “impasse” su cui il Cammino Neocatecumenale ha sempre giocato molto, tra il bianco e il nero.
Per me la sfida oggi è poterlo far leggere anche ai miei figli che un giorno, condizionata dalla mentalità neocatecumenale, misi io stessa nelle loro grinfie.
Mi hanno detto che lo faranno, ma sarò più contenta quando “lo avranno già fatto”, leggere quello che lei ha scritto vale più di mille mie parole, perché parla la Chiesa.
Thank you.
Quanto alla vendita delle copie del libro di padre Ariel, a cui vi attaccate meschinamente per dimostrare il vostro fumo, consta dirvi, cari signori, che è intuibile anche ad un bambino che si tratta di un libro di “nicchia”.
Non è e non è nato come un best seller per la vendita, voi che sapete ragionare solo in termini di “success”.
Del Cammino Neocatecumenale non frega nulla a nessuno, milioni di persone nemmeno sanno che esiste, interessa solo a voi, a noi sfuggiti al pantano melmoso per pura grazia di Dio e agli addetti al settore fedeli alla Chiesa.
Il bacino d’utenza è in sé ridotto a priori, nessuna intenzione di “spaccare il mercato”, che è invece ciò che sempre guida voi neocatecumenali nel vostro merchandising religious.
Valutare in termini di vendite un libro del genere, che ho acquistato e letto tutto d’un fiato apprezzandolo moltissimo, non fa che mostrare soltanto la miseria intellettuale, umana e spirituale che imperversa nelle vostre salette.
Bella roba obbligare gente a comprare individualmente ogni singola menata scritta dal santone, per mostrare successo e carpire denaro…
Now, se volete, potete andare a fare un versamento alla Fondazione per il …
MI DISPIACE PER I PASIONARI, MA IL MIO LIBRO HA VENDUTO E VENDE
Cara Always a free mind,
certo di farle cosa veramente molto gradita, informo lei e chi ci legge che il mio libro, just 20 giorni dall’uscita, ha venduto 411 copie sul mercato italiano.
A questo si aggiunga che, pur non essendo stato tradotto ancora in altre lingue, ha venduto un totale di 31 copie in Germania, England, France, Spagna e Stati Uniti d’America.
Chiunque conosca il mondo editoriale italiano può confermare che vi sono libri di autori pubblicati dai colossi editoriali Mondadori e Rizzoli che non riescono a vendere 250 copie in sei mesi.
Per Mondadori e Rizzoli, se un libro riesce a vendere almeno 250 copie in sei mesi, è considerato un testo che ha avuto un buon esito editoriale.
Questa è la realtà del mondo editoriale italiano, qualsiasi esperto e addetto del settore può spiegarlo e confermarlo.
Therefore, my book, pur essendo come tutte le nostre pubblicazioni un libro “niche”, alla prova dei fatti ha avuto più che successo, per gli standard editoriali italiani. Indeed, quando uscì, ai miei collaboratori dissi: “Speriamo di riuscire a vendere 200 copie in tre mesi”.
Tra l’Italia e altri Paesi stranieri, ne sono state invece vendute 442 in just 20 days.
A gennaio sarà pronta la traduzione in lingua spagnola.
That's all, provato e dimostrato. Si domandi a qualsiasi esperto in editoria per sapere se il libro ha avuto successo o no.
Ha fatto la battutaaaaaaaa
In risposta a Massimiliano e alla Tortora (“at the” non è un errore), che richiedono FATTI, potrei citare tante di quelle associazioni pseudo religiose con tanti bei guru carismatici che hanno prodotto FATTI:
SCIENTOLOGY ha milioni di adepti, moltissime proprietà, un sistema interno, un capo carismatico, un proprio credo ed è diffusa ovunque. In Spagna, dove riconoscono tutto a tutti, è pure riconosciuta come entità religiosa. Ma è una setta.
TESTIMONI DI GEOVA stessa cosa.
TEMPIO DEL POPOLO, che addirittura portò al suicidio di massa in “obedience” al santone carismatico.
Tutti questi, pochi esempi, sono costellati di FATTI ma, as you know, i fatti non vogliono dire un bel nulla se sono frutto di coercizione psicologica e non libera scelta in obbedienza alla Chiesa e NON a catechisti laici improvvisati.
Anche nell’ultimo incontro inizio corso, battono sempre il tasto sulla “mission”, perché se vai in missione o ti fai prete sei più eletto degli eletti.
Nel Cammino Neocatecumenale si tratta di FATTI indotti, non spontanei, come le alzate ai raduni vocazionali: emozionalità, euforia, delirio…
Un FATTO è anche che dovete ridurre i seminari mother of The Redeemer.
Sapete spiegare il perché?
…A volte immagino Cristina Campo “converse” con Carmen Hernendez: un incontro tra materia e antimateria con tutte le conseguenze del caso
Dad, è il titolo stesso che non lascia dubbi. Anche il più critico del cammino Neocatecumenale, conoscendo i suoi 50 years of history, gli apprezzamenti di ben 5 Papi, i frutti di famiglie in missione, famiglie che accolgono con gioia i figli che Dio manda, i seminari sparsi per le parti più sperdute del mondo, dopo aver letto un simile titolo lo bolla per quello che è. Un libro per odiatori.
Nb, e intanto mentre parliamo è sceso già alla posizione 17000 e rotti!
Massimiliano Conti
Con lei si potrebbe parlare all’infinito, dandole tutto lo spazio che vuole per darsi la zappa sui piedi.
But she, truly, se la sentirebbe di entrare nell’aula magna di una università e, davanti a dei relatori che sono studiosi di fama internazionale, affermare che non c’è bisogno di leggere le opere di Nietzsche per criticarlo e stroncarlo inappelabilmente, perché il solo titolo di un suo libro “The Antichrist”, basta e avanza per giudicare – usando le sue precise parole – “tutte le scemenze che sono contenute all’interno”?
Lo sa, “butter”, in fondo che cosa siete?
La esaltazione della più ignorante arroganza mossa dalla superbia, ecco che cosa siete.
E se come lei dice “ben 5 papi” hanno fatto riferimento in vari discorsi di circostanza ai vostri “buoni frutti”, questo non mi vincola ad alcuna adesione di fede: né me, né qualsiasi vescovo né qualsiasi presbitero.
If you make a right, anche se la ragione richiede quell’esercizio del senso critico di cui lei è totalmente privo.
Infine le domando, o eccelso intellettuale: lei ha idea di quanto vendessero i libri di Romano Guardini in Italia? Glielo dico io, neppure poche decine di copie. So, quella di Romano Guardini, è teologia spazzatura, vero? Io che invece ne vendo alcune centinai, dovrei forse definirmi di … livello più alto, o forse più attendibile e teologicamente affidabile?
Una simile folle affermazione a me non passerebbe per la mente neppure se mi somministrassero delle droghe pesanti che devastano il cervello.
Ma se vuole le dirò di più: sulla piazza, la maggioranza, he shouted “Jesus” o gridò “Barabbas”?
God bless her, lei ha bisogno di convertirsi veramente al cattolicesimo, se lo vuole.
Ariel S. Levi di Gualdo
Caro Ariel S. Levi di Gualdo Serbelloni Garzanti Viendalmare, credo che dovrebbe piantarla di citare l’incongruenza delle ” Things” del cammino e guardare i FATTI!
I nostri sono FATTI! Non elugybraioni mentali.
Infatti scrivere 350 pagine piene di insulti è uno sport ( a mio giudizio per nullafacenti) che oggi fanno in molti ed anche con scarsissimi risultati.
La cosa simpatica è che chi scrive contro il cammino finisce inevitabilmente per parlare MALE del o dei Papi….oohhhps…..beccato!!!
there, credo abbia sprecato abbastanza caratteri per lei.
Auguri e…si trovi un bellissimo, most holy, e sudatissimo…LAVORO!
Giuseppe
… altra preziosa critica di un altro settarista esaltato, aggressivo e insultante che non ha argomenti, che non ha letto il libro e che sulla base di ciò che proprio non ha letto e che non conosce spara raffiche di mitra.
Ecco la differenza che corre tra un cattolico animato da Faith and Reason, ed un aderente ad una setta para-cattolica.
Ah, please … lasci perdere la tiritera su San Giovanni Paolo II che “approved us, approved us, approved us”, When de facto, l’essenza stessa del Cammino Neocatecumenale, è smentita proprio dal magistero di questo Pontefice, a partire soprattutto dalla sua Enciclica Fides e Ratio, caro Tortora Uccel di Bosco Viendalmonte.
Togliere infatti alle persone la ragione e l’esercizio del senso critico per sostituirla con la emotività irrazionale come hanno fatto i vostri guru con voi, è un delitto, è un delitto, è un delitto!
Ariel S. Levi di Gualdo
Fair Enough, parliamo di FATTI.
Da dove iniziamo?
– Dal fatto che non sapete neppure la differenza tra un peccato mortale ed uno veniale?
– Dal fatto che per voi la carità è dare PRIMA la decima (decima mai citata negli statuti) then, FORSE, all the rest?
– Dal fatto che la confessione è solo un elenco di peccati perchè, you are, la direzione spirituale la fanno i catechisti?
– Dal fatto che per 10 anni col tubo che ti insegnano il Rosario perchè “non lo capiresti”?
– Dal fatto che avete persino tentato di imbrogliare Papa Benedetto facendovi approvare la “litugia”?
– Dal fatto che ogni qualvolta vi dicono che la Veglia Pasquale non la dovete fare separata ecco che cambiate persino diocesi pur di farla come dite VOI, nascosti in qualche sala di hotel?
Dal fatto che Kiko Arguello ha PUBBLICAMENTE difeso un pedofilo solo perchè Neocatecumenale?
P.S. non mi risulta che abbia mai ritrattato. Non mi risulta che NESSUN NEOCATECUMENALE lo abbia mai smentito. Vuole essere il primo?
– Dal fatto che nessuno come i neocatecumenali è VOLGARE E IROSO quando si trova davanti a cose e persone alle quale NON PUO’, NON VUOLE, NON SA rispondere?
P.S. si risparmi gli insulti.
faccia un favore a se stesso.
Mi tip, carissimo Massimiliano, quante copie avrebbe venduto Kiko Arguello dei suoi “books” se non vi avesse amabilmente costretto, tramite catechisti e responsabili, a comprarne una copia?
… and not only, una copia per ogni nucleo familiare, ma una copia per ogni membro della famiglia stessa.
A questo si aggiunga l’elemento grottesco di quelli che scrivono invitando me a cercarmi un lavoro: ed il divo Kiko, in vita sua, che lavoro ha svolto? Quale è il suo tenore di vita? Quante volte si è mosso usando elicotteri o piccoli aerei privati? Smell, in quali hotel di lusso ha alloggiato con i suoi super-iper-mega-catechisti e presso quali tra i più costosi ristoranti della Capitale andava a cena?
I'll tell You, a quelli che mi invitato a cercarmi un lavoro, a spese di chi il loro falso profeta e cattivo maestro ha fatto questo e altro, con rara e ostentata megalomania: a spese dei settaristi fessi che pagano le decime.
Se lo fosse cercato Kiko, un lavoro …
Ariel S. Levi di Gualdo
father ariel, excuse me, ma la scemenza del libro di Kiko fatto comprare per forza da tutti fa parte delle scemenze raccontate nel suo libro? Le avevo detto di non fidarsi tanto delle calunnie raccontate nel blog… Comunque le posso assicurare che purtroppo il libro di Kiko, kerigma non l’ho mai avuto, non l’ho mai letto e la scemenza del libro comprato per forza non si mai sentita, tutto inventato per gettare discredito sul cammino. E lei ha abboccato.
Kind regards
Massimiliano Conti
… io invece il libro di Kiko l’ho comprato, letto, studiato e poi analizzato, quello come altri testi.
E sa perché?
Perché dalla prima all’ultima, le scemenze e le eresie di Kiko e delle sue catechesi, potrei sostenerle come tali con precisione e cognizione di causa davanti alla Commissione teologica internazionale, senza poter essere smentito. her instead, le presunte “piffle” del mio libro che ha ripetutamente asserito di non avere letto, in quanto non occorre a suo dire leggerlo, non le potrebbe mai dimostrare, perché si tratta appunto di un libro che, per sua stessa e ripetuta ammissione, lei non ha letto, ma che pur malgrado ha tacciato di essere un ricettacolo di scemenze.
Così funziona, nel mondo degli studiosi, così funziona, nel mondo degli emotivi dementi appartenenti ad una setta che richiede come primo presupposto la rinuncia alla ragione e al senso critico, di conseguenza alla fede, perché se non c’è ragione e senso critico, non può esserci fede, I don't say it: lo insegnano i Santi Padri e Dottori della Chiesa, quelli che Kiko e Carmen non hanno mai studiati, I don't say it, lo provano decenni di loro catechesi, dai primi agli ultimi orientamenti dati ai catechisti.
Io sono un teologo serio, books, non li scrivo “documentandomi” sui blog, ma basandomi su atti e documenti ufficiali della Santa Sede, quelli che voi non sapete leggere, o dai quali siete capaci a prendere, da un discorso pontificio, una frase di cinque secondi per urlare “Siamo approvati, we approved!”, dopo che nei rimanenti venticinque minuti di discorso Benedetto XVI vi ha fatti neri e Francesco I più neri ancora del suo predecessore. E’ scritto agli atti, nei discorsi ufficiali, si chiamano By Janet, non si chiamano blog.
Ariel S. Levi di Gualdo
Ma lei non capisce proprio che di commento in commento si sta esponendo al pubblico ridicolo?
Glielo dico come filosofo con trent’anni di carriera accademica alle spalle: lei seguita ad affermare di non avere letto un libro perché il solo titolo basta per affermare che al suo interno è contenuto un ammasso di scemenze.
Lei non spregia semplicemente la logica, lei insulta proprio l’essere umano come essere pensante, dimostrando che il presupposto per aderire al suo movimento è il totale annullamento della ragione.
Purtroppo non sono credente, sono però uno studioso di Anselmo d’Aosta, Tommaso d’Aquino e dei grandi scolastici, molti dei quali sono per voi santi e dottori della chiesa. Ebbene sappia: con i suoi ragionamenti, dal primo sino all’ultimo li sta insultando tutti.
Just so: lei insulta l’intera storia della chiesa, che racchiude al proprio interno i più grandi maestri di logica di tutti i tempi, ai quali si sono rifatti, per i successivi mille anni, sia i filosofi sia i giuristi.
father ariel, lei ha cambiato discorso. In molti post ha ripetuto la CALUNNIA, che il libro di Kiko sia stato venduto a forza nelle comunità. Lei probabilmente si sarà pure documentato su testi importanti, ma questa calunnia, come anche quella degli elicotteri, alberghi di lusso ecc… non l’ha letta certamente sui libri di teologia, ma sul blog, dove anonimi senza scrupoli, che non hanno nulla da perdere, proprio perché nascosti dietro un nome di battaglia, diffamano e calunniano il Cammino Neocatecumenale e il suo iniziatore dalla mattina alla sera. E queste calunnie le ha ripetute più volte. Non sono certo io a doverle ricordare che per un cristiano, calunniare è un peccato, tanto più se chi lo compie è un pastore. Ora perfavore non divaghi di nuovo, resti sulle calunnie che ha raccontato, perché se queste sono raccontate da “people” che si fanno chiamare “riot”, pax, libera topolino e paperino è un conto, ma se le racconta lei, con il suo nome, cognome e casato hanno un altro peso.
Massimiliano Conti
questa calunnia, come anche quella degli elicotteri, alberghi di lusso ecc… non l’ha letta certamente sui libri di teologia
No, non l’ho letta certo sui libri di teologia, ma è tutto dimostrato e documentato: albergo per albergo, ristorante per ristorante, viaggi in business class, uso di elicotteri e all’occorrenza di piper privati.
kiko e Carmen hanno sempre vissuto una vita di lusso.
Kiko alloggiato nelle suites degli hotel a cinque stelle non è una calunnia, it is a fact, per il quale altri hanno pagato. E queste non si chiamano calunnie, si chiamano fatti.
Io che invece sono nato e vissuto nella comodità, ogni comodità l’ho lasciata per fare il prete.
Very expensive, è una calunnia anche il fatto che Kiko OGNI MATTINA dia 50 euro al primo barbone che vede? Lo ha detto lui stesso! Che fa, si autocalunnia?
Given the “vive in povertà francescana” these 50 euro da dove li prende?
Lei ne sa qualcosa?
Mio caro Massimiliano, volessi accondiscenderti nelle tue accuse di bassa lega, mi firmerei Genoveffa Brancaleone, un nome di fantasia, ma pur sempre nome e cognome.
Respingo al mittente ogni tentativo di far passare me, come altri che nel Cammino Neocatecumenale ci sono stati tutta la vita (35 year old, of which 25 da catechista con conoscenza dei mamotreti “secrets”, nonché con l’ultima tappa-boutade del “spiritual marriage”, fatta), come calunniatori. So, quello che dico, personally, è perchè LO SO.
Lo Statuto fu obbligatorio per ogni singolo: io e mio marito ne dovemmo acquistare 2, one by one.
Per quanto riguarda i libercoli, c’è stata una campagna battente pro acquisto che, per come vanno le cose là dentro, equivale ad un obbligo morale. Sempre obbedienza ad ogni alito che esce dalla bocca dei catechisti.
Avete rotto un po’ le scatole con questo della diffamazione e della calunnia, unico falso appiglio per confutare la vostra REALTA’.
Noi ex, oltre ad aver subito quando eravamo dentro, se dichiariamo ciò che abbiamo vissuto e visto ora che siamo fuori, siamo ugualmente attaccati nello stesso modo come persone “non credibili”. Allora è un vizio…
E allora prima di raccontare calunnie, dovrebbe sapere che Kiko essendo nulla tenente, esattamente come lei, but maybe not, perché probabilmente lei una automobile ce l’ha, quando viene invitato in giro, per discorsi, convivenze, ritirare una laurea hc in giro per il mondo, non avendo neanche l’auto che probabilmente lei ha, gli spostamenti, il vitto e l’alloggio sono a carico di chi lo invita, proprio perché non ha nulla. È ospite e se viene invitato a un ristorante ci va, così come il volo. Se gli pagano la prima classe va in prima, otherwise…ora si dia pace, perché per un prete passare le giornate a calunniare e diffamare le persone non è bello. Ne parli con il suo confessore.
Massimiliano Conti
… e prima di parlare con un confessore, potrebbe indicarmi un mega-catechista che possa scrutinarmi?
Sono disposto a ripetere, con il mega-catechista scrutinatore, la colonoscopia che ho fatto il 21 September, perché avendo avuto un padre e un nonno morti per tumore al colon, mi hanno raccomandato di farla a scopro puramente preventivo-precauzionale.
Perché è questo, che fanno i vostri mega-catechisti scrutinatori: la colonoscopia.
E neppure la fanno in privato, oltre una grata, ma in pubblico, before all, a preti compresi.
E adesso dica che non è vero.
Si azzardi a dire che non è vero che i mega-catechisti laici scrutinano persino i preti, che se mi gira pubblico direttamente su L’Isola di Patmos un video degli scrutini girato di nascosto, al costo di prendermi una denuncia per violazione della privacy.
Adesso rispondo invece nel merito delle altre questioni cominciando col dire:
1. se al Pontefice regnante qualcuno lo andasse a prendere con una Rools Royce;
2. se lo andassero a prendere con un aereo privato business class;
3. se gli allestissero una suites extra lusso;
4. se gli servissero durante i pasti tartufi bianchi di Alba, caviale russo e aragoste;
5. etc … etc …
lei ha la più pallida idea di quanto male reagirebbe il Sommo Pontefice Francesco?
Io che la bella vita prima di diventare prete l’ho conosciuta, posso dirle invece che:
1. se mi invitano in un ristorante gourmet di extra lusso evito di andarci, benché li abbia frequentati nella mia precedente vita;
2. se mi invitano a soggiornare in un hotel di extra lusso, come è accaduto, mi rifiuto, perché chi mi dovesse vedere, non sa che sono stato ospitato da persone che mi vogliono tanto bene, semmai dal direttore stesso della società alberghiera che ci teneva che alloggiassi nel suo hotel a cinque stelle categoria superiore;
3. se mi proponessero certi mezzi di trasporto, li eviterei per gli stessi motivi sopra elencati.
Ma io non sono il “nullatenente” Kiko, che direttamente o per mezzo dei suoi ha subito la scusa pronta e confezionata da smerciare per l’uso.
Aggiungo che dal “Vangelo dei miserabili” alla vita di lusso che Kiko fa oggi, ne è passata di acqua sotto i ponti… E’ il totale rinnegamento del voler vivere come povero tra i poveri.
I tributi di cui onorate Kiko voi camminanti sottoposti, sono l’evidenza chiara che lo considerate un divo, an idol.
Infatti per gli idoli si fanno sacrifici, anche economici nel vostro caso e, al posto di consentire una vita dignitosa a tante persone che non hanno di che campare, spendete i vostri soldi per far far vivere nel lusso il vostro idolo, perché in ultimo, è a lui che vanno, sia per le costruzioni faraoniche che ha “inventato”, sia per il tenore di vita che evidentemente gli piace condurre, altrimenti sceglierebbe diversamente.
Qui è questione di come scegli di vivere, non di quello che i pezzi di carta ti attribuiscono.
And he, in barba a voi lavoratori, pensionati, famiglie numerose che tirano la cinghia ogni giorno, ha scelto di vivere da nababbo.
Ma come non ve ne accorgete??
Riportatelo a Palomeras Altas e vedrete quanto dura… Sicuramente meno di quanto durò all’epoca, e fu già poco.
Voi siete l’ennesima dimostrazione di obnubilamento mentale.
father ariel, che fa svia di nuovo il discorso quando non le piace? Ma forse se lo fa si rende conto delle calunnie e diffamazioni che ha scritto e ha bisogno di una via di fuga. E va bene, non parliamo più delle diffamazioni che ha perpetrato. Per quanto riguarda gli scrutini, lei dovrebbe sapere che nel catecumenato, così come nel neo-catecumenato (fu proprio Paolo VI a metterli sullo stesso piano con il famoso discorso: voi lo fate dopo [il catecumenato] il prima o il dopo non ha importanza), i passaggi sono intervallati da scrutini e chiunque decide di fare il catecumenato o il Neocatecumenato fa questi passaggi e anche gli scrutini. Per quanto riguarda i sacerdoti che eventualmente fanno parte della comunità sono assolutamente volontari. Ho assistito a 2 scrutini di presbiteri di cui uno l’anziano parroco, ai quali è stato chiesto se volevano fare lo scrutinio. Ringrazio Dio che hanno accettato, perché specialmente quello del parroco è stato il più bello al quale io abbia mai assistito. Una dichiarazione d’amore a Dio da far venire la pelle d’oca. Non so descrivere a parole quello che ha dato a tutta la comunità. Una edificazione nella fede per tutti.
Massimiliano Conti
… e se io la mettessi dinanzi a svariati sacerdoti fuggiti dal Cammino Neocatecumenale a gambe levate, ed a variati seminaristi anch’essi fuggiti, i quali hanno testimoniato ai loro rispettivi vescovi di essersi sentiti chiedere durante i pubblici scrutini da dei mega-catechisti laici se si masturbavano o se avevano relazioni con donne, lei che cosa fa, replica dicendo che sono tutti quanti dei bugiardi?
La cosa si ripeté talmente diverse volte, con pruriginoso diletto da parte di diversi mega-catechisti scrutinatori, che alla fine in Spagna si arrabbiarono i vescovi direttamente con Kiko e Carmen, venendo a sapere queste cose.
inform.
Poi ci dica che anche i vescovi spagnoli sono tutti bugiardi, assieme ai loro preti che hanno riferito cose simili.
Everyone, rigorosamente tutti menzogneri calunniatori e odiatori del più grande dono fatto dallo Spirito Santo alla Chiesa: the Neocatechumenal Way.
Lei ha le chiacchiere, io le prove.
Ho visto adesso la risposta delle 2:07. Caro father, le sue risposte sono uguali identiche a quelle di tutti gli odiatori tipo libera, pax, tripudio e compagnia cantante. Svariati, tantissimi sacerdoti, gambe levate, tutto evasivo, non dimostrabile. Non un nome, non un articolo se non quelli del blog che a credibilità se la batte con topolino. Non una denuncia, possibile che tra tutte queste miriadi e miriadi di sacerdoti e vescovi, nessuno batte i pugni sul tavolo e denuncia su un giornale quello che accade? Ma lei è così ingenuo che non se lo chiede il motivo? O forse sarà qualche caso isolato, se non unico che odiatori cercano di far diventare “miriadi di miriadi”? Lei è troppo intelligente per non esserselo chiesto… Oppure no, come tutti gli odiatori cerca di ingigantire e distruggere solo per odio.
Massimiliano Conti
Ma, mio caro Massimiliano, come fai a non vedere che il “nulla tenente Kiko” è invece proprietario “de facto” di tutto il suo impero?
Non conta quello che c’è scritto sulla carta, conta l’uso che se ne può fare delle cose.
Che importa se la faraonica Domus, la Domus Mamre, gli oltre 120 seminari nel mondo… are not “intestati” a Kiko ma alla Fondazione o alle Diocesi? Che differenza fa?
Kiko li usa come suoi quando e quanto vuole, ha praticamente un posto in ogni parte del mondo, ne dispone a piacimento, li dirige e ne elabora le regole, ha praticamente l'”usufrutto” di tutto ciò che ha il CNC, anche se non c’è un pezzo di carta che glielo attribuisce.
Può fare vacanze gratis in ville bellissime dei “siblings” a lui soggetti e, for the “good heart” di queste persone permettersi una vita da nababbo.
Quello che conta è come vivi, non l’assenza di pezzi di carta che dimostra la “nullatenenza”
Vallo a dire al ragazzo che ospito a casa mia cosa vuol dire davvero essere “nullatenenti e senza fissa dimora” e te lo potrà spiegare.
Un libro che oltre ad essere un copia/incolla, nessuno compra, visto che in pochi giorni dalla sua uscita, copre già la “prestigious” position 13962 nella classifica Best seller di amazon. Ancora qualche giorno e raggiungerà finalmente la posizione che ricopre il libro di lino lista nella stessa categoria e cioè la 230098!
Dear father Ariel, forse avrebbe fatto meglio ad occuparsi del ministero per cui è pagato.
Kind regards
Massimiliano Conti
… ma guarda, look … come un neocatecumenale con tre marce in più dono speciale dello Spirito Santo, si dà la zappa sui piedi da solo!
So, questo libro a suo dire non venduto, non è stato letto?
E se non è stato letto mi dica, o mio caro scienziato: come mai numerose persone lo stroncano in modo inesorabile senza averlo letto?
E’ stato forse lo “Holy Spirit” kikiano a infondervi la piena conoscenza dei contenuti, senza neppure sfogliare il libro?
Massimiliano Conti, lei è veramente un genio, veramente un genio!
Ariel S. Levi di Gualdo
Non sia ingenuo caro Padre, molti lo “stroncano”, as she says, perché già dal titolo si preannuncia un ricettacolo di scemenze e offende centinaia di migliaia di persone che attraverso il Cammino Neocatecumenale sono rientrate nella chiesa.
Non c’è bisogno di comprarlo e i numeri che appaiono sul sito di amazon implacabilmente lo testimoniano.
Massimiliano Conti.
Udite.. hear, dear Readers!
Il neocatecumenale-modello dichiara che per stroncare un libro non occorre leggerlo, per affermare che è un ricettacolo di scemenze basta leggere solo il titolo.
Se qualcuno aveva dubbi con chi abbiamo a che fare, può trarre tutte le proprie conclusioni.
Se tornassi indietro, riscriverei a maggior ragione, altre mille volte la “Sette neocatecumenale”.
Ariel S. Levi di Gualdo
315 pagine che ( oltre ad essere copiate) non hanno nessun fondamento teologico
… eccone un altro in ordine di serie!
Sarebbe splendido metterla assieme a me davanti a un pubblico composto perlopiù di teologi, verificare anzitutto se ha letto il libro che taccia di essere copiato – da dove? – e quindi verificare che cosa ne sa lei, of theology.
Potremmo partire dai grandi fondamenti della metafisica dei Santi Dottori della Chiesa e sentire che cosa a tal proposito lei ha da dirci.
Sarà esilarante, sentirla rispondere a domande sulla teologia della incarnazione del Verbo, con una filastrocca di qualche mega-catechista emissario del personale Spirito Santo dell’Arguello.
Non ci privi di questa delizia: organizziamo quanto prima l’incontro.
Ridicolo al seguito di ridicoli, senza alcun comune senso del ridicolo, della misura e del reale!
Ariel S. Levi di Gualdo
Perché lei caro padre, ha paura del giudizio della gente che è lo stesso suo giudizio. Lei quando vede qualcuno scendere da un elicottero lo giudica ecco che allora cerca di evitare per non incappare nel suo stesso giudizio. Chi non ha paura del giudizio sale su una 500 o su una ferrari con lo stesso animo. Kiko poi non è il Santo Padre, non è il rappresentante di Cristo. È un catechista.
Massimiliano Conti
… risponda alla domanda.
Le ho chiesto: how to react, dinanzi a certe offerte, the reigning Pontiff?
Answer.
Non si tratta mica di indagare la sua coscienza, basta solo vedere come vive e come esige che vivano anche gli altri ecclesiastici.
Ma implicitamente le ho già risposto! Kiko non è un Ecclesiastico e tanto meno il Papa, è un catechista e quindi non è legato da voti di povertà. Quindi di cosa sta parlando? Si sta arrampicando sugli specchi per giustificare le sue calunnie e diffamazioni. Non ha paura del giudizio degli altri, forse perché non li giudica come invece fa lei padre.
Massimiliano Conti
Nemmeno il Romano Pontefice, è legato al voto di povertà, do you think: possiede uno Stato intero, di cui è sovrano assoluto, ossia proprietario.
Nemmeno noi presbiteri, siamo legati ad alcun voto di povertà, lo sono i frati degli ordini mendicanti ed altri religiosi, non noi.
But most of all:
Non sono io che mi arrampico sugli specchi.
Non sono io che sollevo altre questioni per eludere le risposte;
Non sono io che non rispondo.
Le calunnie, sono quelle che i suoi amabili fratelli, non avendo argomenti di risposta, stanno lanciando su di me in giro su tutti i blog.
Quelle che io dico su di voi, posso dimostrarlo e l’ho dimostrato, quello che invece voi dite su di me, sono invenzioni, denigrazioni e pure calunnie.
Lei è irragionevolmente e irrazionalmente grottesco, ad accusare di calunnia me, che da giorni e giorni sono subissato di merda da tutti i suoi settaristi in giro per la rete telematica.
Risposta alla risposta delle 2.19
Io ho risposto a tutto quello che mi ha chiesto, anche se non credo di essere sotto esame. Sugli scrutini dei preti, sul libro di Kiko che secondo lei veniva venduto a forza nelle comunità ecc. Ma soprattutto le ho risposto a tutte le calunnie che ho letto sulla vita di kiko. Le ho spiegato i motivi per cui quello che ha detto è una calunnia. Perché non è vero, perché kiko è nulla tenente, non ha la patente, non una macchina, non uno stipendio, non una casa. Vive di ciò che gli viene dato, ma soprattutto NON HA PAURA DELLA VANITÀ SE QUESTA SERVE PER FARE IL BENE. Se lo invitano a prendere una laurea hc e lo prendono con l’elicottero non fa storie inutili. Così se lo vanno a prendere con la 500. Quindi lei di quello che ha detto non può dimostrare nulla, non esistono libri comprati a forza (è una vostra invinzione), kiko non fa la bella vita come ha detto lei, vive di ciò che gli viene dato e quindi tecnicamente quello che ha detto è una diffamazione. Point. Lo ammetta e finiamola qui.
Massimiliano Conti
Volevo fare vivissimi complimenti per la veridicità del blog…..
Fra Magister e Ariel fanno a gara a chi spara le stupidaggini più grosse…an example: contariamente a quel che ha scritto Magister, il Papa ha nominato Ascension, membro dell’equipe responsabile del Cammino, consultrice del Dicastero dei Laici Famiglia e Vita……
Non mi pare abjia nominato Ariel o qualche altro teologone copia&incolla come lui….or not?????
Anch’io le faccio vivissimi complimenti, soprattutto se mi spiega questo: How come, The Popes, non hanno nominato San Leopoldo Mandic e San Pio da Pietrelcina come penitenzieri maggiori della Penitenzieria Apostolica? Oppure Santa Edith Stein “consultrice” della Congregazione per l’educazione cattolica?
there, provi a darsi una risposta, poi scoprirà da se stesso, la clamorosa neocatecazzata che ha appena scritta.
Ariel S. Levi di Gualdo
Caro Carlo ti rendi conto di come parli?
Tu citi Magister e don Ariel e dunque fatti qualche domanda.
Butter, addestrati a fare i pappagalli tutta la vita, poiché vi è proibito PENSARE e RAGIONARE e APPROFONDIRE: chi tra voi è catechista deve solo RIPETERE fedelmente e pedissequamente le catechesi, pari pari come le fa Kiko l’unico profeta ispirato di tutto il vostro giocoso caravanserraglio.
Vuoi forse insegnare a me? Che ho vissuto molti anni lì dentro e ho conosciuto tutte queste cose per esperienza diretta? E tu accusi di “copia&paste” spend?
In the end, se proprio sei convinto che non si sappia far altro che un “copia&paste”, ebbene ti dico che anche copiare e incollare bene può essere un’arte non da tutti; it's still, se non ti basta, se pure don Ariel “copia&paste”, da qualche parte avrà copiato tutto il materiale con cui riempire un libro intero … e il resto ancora deve venire.
Saluti e stai sereno.
Pax
Grazie Pax.
Colgo l’occasione per ripetere che sul mio libro e su me suo autore, in giro per la rete sono stati lanciati insulti a volte davvero terribili. Pochi giorni fa sono intervenuto su una pagina Facebook dove una insegnante invitata presso la Facoltà Teologica dell’Italia Meridionale mi ha trattato in modo aggressivo e insultante, senza che lei e gli altri interlocutori rispondessero a una domanda molto semplice da me più volte ripetuta, this: ” … ma lei/ma voi, the 315 pages of my book, le avete lette?”.
Inutile soffermarsi sulla gravità del fatto che una sedicente teologa e docente non dovrebbe osare rivolgersi pubblicamente in modo così odioso neppure verso il peggior prete di questo mondo, facendo una stroncatura micidiale senza avere letto un solo rigo del suo libro. Non a caso le ho risposto che fossi stato il suo ordinario diocesano le avrei ritirata seduta stante la licenza per l’insegnamento teologico, perché ci sono comunque dei limiti che non possono e non devono essere superati. E una persona che si manifesta e si comporta a questo modo, non va messa certo in cattedra.
A questa gente, instead, è concesso il superamento di ogni limite, nella più totale e de-virilizzata impotenza di una autorità ecclesiastica ormai priva di attributi.
Non sono propriamente un “ex ragazzo di provincia”. A suo tempo ho viaggiato per l’Europa, studiato in grandi università in Italia e all’estero, ho vissuto per un periodo di tempo negli Stati Uniti d’America, per altro periodo di tempo in Germania, etc … Yet ever, elsewhere, ho conosciuto persone intrise di quella spocchia, ahimè tutta quanta italiana, che le porta a discutere su ciò che non conoscono, su ciò che non hanno studiato, su ciò che non hanno proprio letto.
Ma posso dirle di più: un neocatecumenale spagnolo, prima di lanciarsi a stroncare il mio lavoro, lo avrebbe preso e letto, perché lo spagnolo ha quel senso di onore e di dignità che lo porta a rifuggire certe figura da perfetto beota italiota; e non si può certo dire che gli spagnoli non siano temperamenti focosi e sanguigni.
In short: l’italianità dell’italiota è una malattia aggravata dal fatto che attraverso internet, anche l’ultimo degli idioti che ha visto un film di fantascienza si sente legittimato a salire in cattedra e urlare da dietro lo schermo “asshole!” a un premio Nobel per la fisica, dicendo che le cose non stanno come dice lui.
… ma che mestiere fa, quello che dopo avere visto un film di fantascienza urla al fisico premio Nobel “asshole!”? Se andiamo a vedere scopriamo che non ha finito neppure le scuole medie superiori e salta in modo disadattato da un lavoro all’altro, però s’intende di tutto e discute su tutto – your internet! -, preferibilmente dando degli incompetenti soprattutto agli specialisti.
Questa la realtà.
Su che cosa è costruito il mio libro tacciato dall’ennesimo neocat non-lettore di essere un copia&paste?
Soon said:
1. su documenti ufficiali;
2. sugli scambi avvenuti nel corso di un ventennio tra i rappresentanti della Santa Sede e del Cammino Neocatecumenale;
3. sui documenti d’archivio ai quali ho potuto accedere presso la Santa Sede, in particolare quelli della Congregazione per il culto divino e la disciplina dei Sacramenti;
4. su lunghi colloqui avuti con alti prelati che sono stati diretti protagonisti di questa vicenda;
5. su lunghi colloqui con Nunzi Apostolici della Santa Sede che in vari angoli del mondo si sono dovuti destreggiare spesso con enormi difficoltà tra l’episcopato locale furente, i neocatecumenali che creavano enormi problemi in quelle Chiese locali, la Santa Sede alla quale sono state inviate dettagliate relazioni, proteste e petizioni dei vescovi locali che non volevano i “missionari neocatecumenalizzatori”, perché ovunque arrivavano erano problemi, rotture e liti tra le comunità ecclesiali;
and finally:
6. ho potuto anche esaminare accurate e preoccupate relazioni scritte da eminenti ecclesiologi e teologi e consegnate personalmente a mano da due capi dicastero direttamente a Giovanni Paolo II, il quale stimava a tal punto questi studiosi da rivolgersi ripetutamente a loro durante la preparazione delle sue più delicate encicliche.
7. etc … etc …
Toccando il Cammino Neocatecumenale, ho veramente toccato quel genere di squallore cieco, irrational, emotivo e aggressivo che mai, sincerely, avevo toccato prima.
Possa Dio perdonare chi ha permesso lo sviluppo di questo cancro all’interno della Chiesa, che già all’epoca dei loro esordi era già gravemente devastata.
Unfortunately, le centinaia di commenti postati dai settaristi sui tre articoli dedicati da L’Isola di Patmos al dibattito sui Noecatecumenali, sono caratterizzati da:
1. cieca irragionevolezza;
2. mancanza di senso critico;
4. incapacità di dibattere ma solo di aggredire con argomenti risibili;
5. inquietante non conoscenza del Catechismo della Chiesa Cattolica;
6. una visione totalmente deformata della ecclesiologia e del cammino di fede cristiana;
7. ostinazione a non rispondere, a eludere gli argomenti ed a sollevare per tutta risposta altre questioni ogni volta che gli sono presentati dati oggettivi ai quali replicare nel merito;
8. ostinata e pervicace adulterazione dei dati oggettivi, dei documenti della Santa Sede, dei discorsi dei Sommi Pontefici, etc …
Queste centinaia di commenti, non sono frutto di esplosioni di ira e di spirito insultante da parte di alcuni cosiddetti “loose dogs”, sono purtroppo il paradigma delle triste realtà oggettiva di una setta intra-ecclesiale.
Ariel S. Levi di Gualdo
@ Tshs
But how, sei neocatecumenale o “simpatizzante” e non sai quanti link neocatecumenali esistono?
Eccotene alcuni, ma solo proprio un assaggino…
Naturalmente sono mezzi oscurati per la privacy:
Conto corrente postale: n. 2..9….00.. – Intestato a: Collegio Diocesano Redemptoris Mater
Pax-Bank di Colonia IBAN: DE2.. 3….6 0..3 00..2 4090 1.. BIC: GE..DED1P..X
BANCA: Cred. Coop. MEDIOCRATI – PAOLA (CS) WERE GOING: IT 3.. D 0….62 80….0 00000010….40
E così via per ognuno dei più di 100 Redemptoris Mater del Cammino Neocatecumenale, tanto per fare qualche piccolo esempio…
Senza contare le donazioni per la Fondazione per il museo in onore di Kiko, per la Fundacion Domus Jerusalem…
Basta andare sui relativi siti ed… oplà!
Maree di links.
QUALE TRAVE???? (ha ha haaa….)
I neocatecumenali dovrebbero anche loro mettere il link per le donazioni come voi…
Ha ha haaaa
TRAVE NELL’OCCHIO!!!!
La frase di Claudio è in perfetto stile neocatecumenale: per salvarsi e giustificarsi da un comprovato addebito, si risponde accusando l’altro.
Questo lo fanno anche i bambini, quando la mamma li sgrida e per scrollarsi le responsabilità accusano un fratello: “Ma anche lui…”
E’ impossibile trovare tra i neocatecumenali una sola persona matura, responsabile ed umile che ammetta l’errore. Devono sempre replicare accusando l’altro.
E’ da perfetti ignoranti puntare il dito su una prassi utilizzata da ogni rivista o associazione che si auto sostenta, quando gli oltre cento seminari Redemptoris Mater dedicano paginate intere per le donazioni e fanno pure ricevimenti di gala per il fundrising. Il paragone tra una singola rivista e una modalità sistematica ed oltremodo estesa non regge, eppure la mente neocatecumenale lo partorisce.
Senza contare le decime, che personalmente mi hanno dissanguata, le collette continue per i seminaristi, per gli itineranti, per la Domus, l’uso di “adottare un seminario” da parte delle comunità per sostentarlo o “adottare” delle missioni…
I neocatecumenali ne sanno una più del diavolo su come fare a spillare soldi alla gente.
Fate tanto i difficili sulla decima e la pagina si apre con un bel link per i pagamenti…..
Lei invece fa tanto l’ipocrita nel più perfetto stile neocatechiko.
Mi trovi una pagina, un rigo, una parola sola nella quale si obbliga, pena minacce e coercizioni psicologiche di ogni genere, a versarci danaro, stile catechisti neocatecumenali che raccattano le decime obbligatorie.
Noi invitiamo chi lo desidera a sostenere la nostra opera, senza obblighi di sorta.
Hypocritical!
Imbecille…..ipocrita a me???
Ma vai a cagare e leva il link donazioni stronzo
A: Come si riconoscono i neocat?
B: Dal loro linguaggio tipico.
A- E qual è il loro linguaggio tipico?
B- Imbecille… ipocrita… vai a cagare… stronzo…
Ci sei o ci fai?
Nessuno ti obbliga a comperare un bel niente,
La decima invece LA DEVI DARE. Non ci sono scuse.
Then, caro Claudio, le copie dello statuto non te le hanno fatte comprare (una per ogi membro della famiglia)? I libri di Kiko non te li hanno fatti comprare? E’ stata una tua libera scelta per caso?
E poi vieni qua a dire certe cose?
Siete dei pezzenti. Nell’anima.
Avete proprio la coda di paglia! Come si parla di soldi pensate male, si vede che la sapete lunga. Chi chiede con semplicità e nella libertà non ha nulla da nascondere e ci vuole più umiltà a chiedere che a dare. Leggi con attenzione: don Ariel ha anche spiegato che la sua famiglia d’origine è benestante e dunque, per vivere bene, non ha bisogno di chiedere l’elemosina.
Piuttosto tornando a voi: allora è vero che esiste l’obbligo della decima per tutti quelli che vogliono fare il cammino? Anche se non c’è nello Statuto neanche un accenno a questo dovere ineludibile dei neocatecumeni?
Pax
Congratulations to Don Ariel (e ai suoi collaboratori) at the flattering criticism of the book published yesterday by one of the most’ authoritative and followed the world's Catholics blog, in four languages.
http://magister.blogautore.espresso.repubblica.it/2019/09/30/i-neocatecumenali-sulla-via-del-tramonto-col-contributo-del-papa/
The hatred oozing from the responses of the majority of neocat leads me to think, spero veramente di sbagliare, to the possessed by Satan.
And think about it!
They occur when splashing them with Holy Water.
The book by Father Ariel is the Holy Water!
The God of His overflowing Thanks, very expensive.
Pax
Acqua Santa che vomita sul Papa????
hhhmmmmm…….
Caro Paolokatetiko,
lei ha la più pallida idea di quanti Santi e dottori della Chiesa, in toni severissimi, hanno rivolto dure critiche ai Sommi Pontefici?
Se lei non si limitasse solo alla panzane neokatekike e studiasse seriamente la dottrina cattolica e la storia della Chiesa, di ciò sarebbe al corrente.
Gliene cito uno solo tra i tanti – perché sono tanti – : Bernard of Clairvaux, A saint and Doctor of the Church, autore del libello Treaty good for every Pope scritto per Eugenio III.
Potremmo aggiungerne una lista lunghissima: Bonaventure of Bagnoregio, A saint and Doctor of the Church, San Pier Damiani …
Ah, dimenticavo che per voi esiste un santo solo: Saint John Paul II, elevato agli onori degli altari proprio per avere approvato ad experimentum il Cammino Neocatecumenale nel 2002, tutti gli altri non fanno testo …
…St. Caterina da Siena, per citarne un’altra, Santa and Doctor of the Church, ha donato tutta se stessa per la Chiesa e ai Papi parlava chiaramente a nome del Signore Gesù suo Sposo e diceva loro come dovevano comportarsi, senza timori e con grande coraggio tornare a Roma dall’esilio Avignonese. This, anyhow, è l’atteggiamento del vero figlio della Chiesa, di chi la ama e ama il Santo Padre quale “sweet Christ on earth” (come Caterina lo chiamava) “Servant of the servants of God”. Leggi le lettere di Santa Caterina, vera grande santa, mica come la “santa di categoria superiore” come Kiko stoltamente, come uno che non sa ciò che dice, definisce Carmen Hernandez.
La verità è che voi adulate il Papa davanti, this is true, ma io so bene nelle convivenze esclusive di itineranti come parlate del Papa e di una buona parte dei Cardinali, falsi e ipocriti! Provate a dire in faccia la verità. Invece di annuire e poi disobbedire senza nessuno scrupolo di coscienza. Voi sì che siete bravi! Qui non si vomita su nessuno, tanto meno sul Papa. Magari leggesse ciò che scriviamo! Tranquillo, noi gli diremmo, avendone l’occasione, le stesse cose. Mica siamo come voi!
Pax
Long live the inquisitorial process!
In the inquisitorial system the figure of the judge and the prosecutor merge into a single entity, the investigator (or interrogator), since there is no accuser and accused as parties to the proceedings in the proper sense. It is the investigator to initiate the process office, introduce issues of fact, acquire the relevant evidence and evaluate these, in such a way altogether independent of the parties, then deciding on the basis of the investigation conducted so acts. Moreover, unlike the adversarial system, in that the inquisitorial process is based on documentary sources of evidence acquired during the investigation, and not on statements made during the trial; also evidence gathering takes place in almost total secrecy and its probative value is subtracted from the debate between the prosecution and defendant.
Thus the appearance of the process moves away from the paradigm of the struggle to get close to the investigation and ends up looking like, under certain aspects, the administrative procedure. This procedural model beginning to spread in the Roman Empire the final stage..
Also for Averroes , although I know it will not respond.
He answers only to Don Ariel and sometimes insult other readers who contested.
How many volumes of your Catechetical Directory?
I'll give you a little help, for the Church are 13, do you have 14, who's right?
For what concerns the volume of the “Spiritual Marriage” (that is, 14 volume), could you quote me the Church document that you approved it?
another little question, it is true that after the second pass must give the CN, ALL tenth of what you earn?
Last question, it is true that the CN must obedience to lay catechist of the Neocatechumenal Way?
In case, where these things are written?
Last question, You keep talking about 1.500.000 members of the Neocatechumenal Way, your sources speak of about 21.000 communities around the world, what do you think about it?
I'll explain, to me it is that communities having to be small groups should not exceed 50 Unit.
For direct experience of 30-40 parishes where it is present the CN, the groups are approximately 30 Unit, then 30 * 21,000 = 660,000 members, as you get your 1.500.00?
Understand also the number of the sons NC…
Domandina? Dove sta scritto che dobbiamo rispondere ad un imbecille come te?
Se mi rispondi ti rispondo alle tue domande
By their fruits you recognize the tree and this tree is sick.
They are all the same , cookie-cutter.
E’ useless groped to reason, they have the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, so they do not need Intellect, of Wisdom, della Scienza, Fortezza, the Pietà, Council let alone the Fear of God.
Got the hint their Holy Spirit is not the Christian one of 7 want, theirs is special as the “movement” they belong, Holy Spirit is one of the category Superior, a Holy Spirit Adult.
If you ask why the 2010 to date they have NEVER posted on Catechetical Directory on which they are based ALL heresy of Kiko&C do not respond ever, because even they can not read it ALL, I can only read and only lay catechists as Averroes , but only the “piece” that need parroting their followers.
Mud and Secret, this is the essence of the Neocatechumenal Way.
Averroes in addition to the book by Don Ariel leggiti the excellent book by Lino list and learn more about the controversial and chameleon “neocatecumenale movement.
LUCA
Carissimo Paolo,
as it used to slander and defame people, remember what he thinks of Pope Francis “maldicenza”. But apparently on the way “to kill his brother” to smear fury to be the national sport.
I least I put my face, you're just a coward with no personality and no courage.
In the face of the Christian conscious and adult!
You accuse Paul of slander??
Where are we….imbecile publishes a book that is chock-full and Paul would be in error?
But please…
She also read 315 pages of the book from cover to cover, or staff “Holy Spirit Kikiano” gives you a knowledge that they can make judgments on a job without having read?
Your Welcome: answer …
Ariel S. Levi di Gualdo
You do not have to read it to know that you wrote a shitload of great nonsense, grandissimo [CENSORED]
We all are grateful for his valuable contribution, because she is not an isolated case or a borderline case, but the norm: the neocatechumenal model that does not need to read, but he can criticize and put down what you have not read, then what you do not know.
She is the norm of what we can produce a poisonous psycho-sect that is based on bogus charisma of its leaders, People with proven and widely demonstrated ignorance; people that, at the studio, to knowledge and the pursuit of knowledge, They have replaced the big whopper of a “Holy Spirit” that makes such ignorant proud of their ignorance.
I have known in my life a few teachers who really made history, but yet, while it is of living encyclopedias, as they talked, ninety played, They had the humility to say: “And, maybe in my long life, studying, I learned something, but just something and just over …”.
These large, those recognized by God and men, They were precisely the great, They were not a couple of scoundrels sorcerer's apprentice Spanish self-elettisi living voice of the Holy Spirit, They were of great authentic, Kiko and Carmen were not who spread a real cancer in the Church.
Ariel S. Levi di Gualdo
But seriously you can not put the firewall between the brain and the mouth?
But you have, the pads are worn inhibitions?
Look, le do un consiglio. Tomorrow go into the first church that sees and go toward the tabernacle. Then your knees and ask the Blessed Sacrament to heal. Then, when it will be sufficiently reassured go the priest to confess. He needs it. Believe me.
No, I accuse him of slander since, to ruin my reputation, He accused me of having certain sexual tastes. And this purely and simply because obviously my questions, however, not even addressed to him (you will feel called to account, chi può dirlo), non sapeva, could or should respond.
Che ne dici, There's enough?
Ps….but that public is alessandra … did you know that is one of Catania and [CENSORED]
_______________
NOTE ABOUT COMMENT CENSORED BY EDITORIAL
His comment does not enter into the debate, but attacks in insulting way a person.
We recall in this regard that The Island of Patmos It is a magazine, with regular registration on the rolls and with a responsible manager in writing in the relevant records pertaining to the Order of Journalists of Lazio. It is not a "shot" blog on the network by anonymous individuals who have created can let off steam against persons of public pages on which many people without an identity on the internet, Institutions and Things.
If us to pass comments in which he insults a person or an institution, if the comment was apparent defamation in the press and by electronic means of public communication, the Site Manager he should respond criminally in court, because he is in every sense of responsible law of defamatory comments published.
Once before I was insulted with scurrilous epithets. Evidently there was enough.
Well done, demonstrated once again when you are miserable soul. You are the best fruit of the journey, no doubt about it.
But then I recommend, continue to defend pedophiles who have within (and I do not say that they are pedophiles, but a ruling Pope Francis himself).
Hypocrites.
On the author's copy megasaggio&paste tonacalvento…..
I see that you also fominci to block comments…..
You are right…otherwise you would come covered (justified) insults as your friend and your trippudione false theologian guerini seas…
Make it…..you are in search of glory but not shit you no….
nay……Perhaps some of your pre-conciliar sectarian comes back….
Ciao bello…..an advice……He found a job as a priest because you suck….you have the humility to saddam hussein, the blindness of Hitler and culture of Checco Zalone….
Thank you.
I will treasure all her valuable advice, unless one: 'You found a job as a priest because you suck ".
I do not need, I come from a rich family, then I “laid off by the Catholic Church” I would have to live on rent.
Unfortunately, none of my family is neocatechumenal, I'm sorry for you, you could pluck hundreds of thousands of euro in tithes.
your family and’ [CENSORED]
____________
N.d.R.
Comment censored because it is deeply insulting
These are words that the public of a Pope Francis speech during the meeting with the communities of the Neocatechumenal Way, the 6 March 2015, in Paul VI Hall. On that occasion the Pope sent and blessed 220 The mission to nations:
“Dear brothers and sisters,
buongiorno a tutti! And thanks, thank you very much for coming to this incontro.Il task of the Pope, Peter's task is to confirm the brethren in the faith. So too you have wanted with this gesture to ask the Successor of Peter to confirm your call, to support your mission, bless your charisma. And I now confirm your call, I support your mission and bless your charisma. I do this not because he [indicates Kiko] He paid me, no! I do it because I want to do. You will go in the name of Christ in the world to bring his Gospel: Cristo precede you, Christ will accompany, Christ bring to fulfillment the salvation of you bear!:
I ask her,This speech belongs to the ordinary magisterium or is it just an administrative act?Oppure cosa è?Words in freedom of the Pope?I look confidently answered.
… scusi, He realizes that you have just fired the gun on the feet, to say the least, without being even aware?
She reported a speech in which the Pope makes a joke really deadly allusive … Kiko says that has not paid the.
If she goes to see the movie, You will notice that the whole thing does not say it jokingly, smiling, but in a very serious way.
He wants to know who was addressing, with this joke that she just does not seem able to understand?
He was referring to all the bishops friends, paid and expensed, to travel around the world meeting at Domus Galilaeae, as a backdrop to the Kiko Arguello power test delusional omnipotence, after the Neocatechumenal had paid roundtrip tickets, the living room and then given to each bid as … token presence.
The Holy Father told you in the face to everyone: “… a me, Kiko, I do not pay me” implying with that sentence spoken in a serious and not joking “as it pays at all points the bishops who are to act as his appearances so that he can then say: we approved, we supported, we are powerful”.
In May 2018, on the occasion of your 50th, the Holy Father has come to tell you in the face:
"Risen Jesus says: “Make disciples”. This is the mission. Does not say: conquistate, occupied, but "make disciples" '.
And why, the Holy Father, You have warned telling you that you do not have “conquer” e “to occupy”?
Not to mention the fiery speech that Benedict XVI gave in 2010 at the administrative approval granted to you by the Pontifical Council for the Laity, without that in it we were even vaguely mentioned the Supreme Pontiff, that that document would not be mentioned.
She was deprived to such critical sense point of not even become aware of what brings, nor understand what you just copied and pasted.
Then he asks questions, perhaps considering himself shrewd and cunning, interlocutor to know what would be the nature “theological” and if a formal greeting speech of the Supreme Pontiff is to be considered an act of the ordinary magisterium.
But he realizes what he says and what he asks?
Ariel S. Levi di Gualdo
Dear Don Ariel but she joking or talking seriously?Si rende conto di quello che dice?He's mystifying the Holy Father's words,does not it seem disrespectful?The Pope said that joke wanted to make their own irony of those who slander the Way and Kiko,not as you say,misunderstood or want to understand male.Cosa these words mean to you:” And I now confirm your call, I support your mission and bless your charisma. I do this not because he [indicates Kiko] He paid me, no! I do it because I want to do”. The Pope then,in your opinion,ha benedetto,confirmed,sostenuto,the heretics mission?She blessed,confirmed,supported a heretical sect?Explain to me what these words mean,please,since it is teologo.Il Pope then you are wrong?
Ok va bene tutto quello che vuole,ma la prego mi risponda,per cortesia.Accetto gli insulti,ma vorrei che mi rispondesse.Grazie
But why wriggling out of my questions?Yet they seem simple and dirette.Non understand why he does not answer.
Stop it once and for all.
She poses questions, The are giving detailed and relevant answers to what she asks, the is shown publicly his mistake, then replies that the other party wriggling by his questions.
His question "where are the heresies ... ah, He realizes what he says ...?"I reported on two entire songs: a catechesis of Kiko and an act of Paul VI's teaching that denies and condemns what Kiko says. She responded immediately with these other comments without even having had time to read the answer, which reports on the one hand the heresies of Kiko and the other the teaching of Paul VI.
I told you in a previous answer, and here I repeat: She must be taken care of, quickly and well.
One that alters the real fact and denies the reality at this level, when subjected to brain scan, It will come out, unfortunately and inexorably, a long flat line ...
Read what says Arguello, read what it says Paolo VI, Did I all right dates, the answers.
But what game plan to play?
That is his comparison between the catechesis of Kiko and the Pope Paul VIsarebbe evidence speeches [CENSORED]
_____
N.d.R.
From this moment on, all the user comments posted Averroes will not be published. We are faced with a person fractious and unreasonable, that asks questions, The answers are given on the substance of what it wants. Then send more comments without even having read the answers, to play the sophistry and accuse the other person of not having answered your questions, overturning the speeches and mystifying the facts, altering the documents of the magisterium and the speeches of the Holy Father cited in a partial way and extrapolated phrases from speeches and used to make him say what he did not say.
Surely we will pray for him, as with all people so devastated and corrupted in their psychology and in almost complete inhibition of the reasoning and the exercise of critical thinking through the work of the Neocatechumenal capocomici Sect, che dovranno rispondere seriamente a Dio, for such damages caused to people reduced in this psychological state of total unreason.
And because she does not respond to questions MIE, carissimo Averroè?
What should I think, who preach good and evil scratching?
Come tell me.. I am waiting.
In addition, I repeat the question,I hope I will answer:She accepts only the defining and definitive teaching or even the ordinary?I did not answer and I do not understand why.
I accept the magisterium definitional, the definitive magisterium and the ordinary magisterium.
I accept what is written on the Catechism of the Catholic Church and celebrate the Eucharistic Sacrifice of the Mass of the Roman Missal with adhering scrupulously total general regulation.
The problem is not me, I respect all, the problem is you, that all that will they not respected.
But, ask others if they respect.
This question is equivalent to the one posed by a whore who works in Casalina and then, Working disassembling, It passes from a cloistered monastery question and a nun: but you respect chastity, vero?
Please, You do not stick to say … oh God, the priest has said one word!
Carmen also said the swearing in liturgical area during the Eucharistic celebrations.
Both per prevent.
Dear Father, I'm glad you agree on defining and definitive magisterium,but then it should also accept the praise and the favor of Pope's speeches against the Way,which in my humble opinion,They are part of the ordinary magisterium of the Pope and should avoid dismiss them saying they did not care nulla.Cosa knows that we do not rispetteremmo the Magisterium of the Church?It has a direct knowledge of the Way, or speak from hearsay?I cite an example of disrespect of magistero.Poi even if it were as you say,He does not believe that it would be best left to the official organs of the Church, the task of monitoring orthodoxy of the Way?There is Cong.per the Doctrine of the Faith,the Holy Father himself,because she wants to replace?He thinks he is the savior of the Church?If there are so many heresies,because neither the Cong.per the Doctrine of the Faith,nor the Pope were detected either them?Indeed, the Pope encourages and blesses?Do you think that the mistakes Pope?I think you do all this cabal that wants to advertise his book,it seems very petty thing like.
I'll answer right away.
Kiko Arguello heretical catechesis on the Eucharist to the catechists for their training, its relative mockery of the Council of Trent and further mockery of the concept of transubstantiation, with a depiction nothing short of grotesque history of the Church and the sacramental theology:
"With the Council of Trent, in the 16th century, everything is fixed rigidly, imposing radically the Roman rite. With this tax now you can not remove or add anything to it. So the mass has come down to us. This fixism lasted so long that when for the first time they changed the liturgy, we were shocked because it seemed unchangeable. This is a mistake: the liturgy is in continuous renewal. Remember the diversity of communions of the early Church, and yet their perfect unity. The liturgy is life, a reality that is the Spirit living among men. So you can not ever bottle, it surpasses all models. He always new events. The interesting thing is the unity of the content. And why the renewal truly never ends, because he is always looking for a concrete manifestation of what is life. In this era come all philosophies on the Eucharist. When you do not understand what is the sacrament, because of the huge devaluation of the sacraments as signs, and when you do not understand what is the memorial, one begins to rationalize, to want to explain the mystery of what's inside. Precisely because, the mystery transcends his only explanation, there is a sacrament. The sacrament speaks more of reasoning. But at that time because you do not understand what is the sacrament, we try to give philosophical explanations of the mystery. And so begin discussions on: "How is this?”. Luther never denied the Real Presence, He denied only the little word "transubstantiation" which is a philosophical word that wants to explain the mystery. The early Church never had problems with the Real Presence. For those Christians there was no doubt that Jesus Christ was present in the Eucharist. But the important thing is not in the presence of Jesus Christ. He says: "For this I have come: to pass from this world to my Father ". Namely, the physical presence in the world has a purpose that is resurrected from death. This is the important thing. The presence is a means to an end, it is His work: the Easter mystery […] There is no Eucharist without assembly. It is whole assembly that celebrates the feast and the Eucharist; because the Eucharist is the human assembly exultation in communion; because the precise place in which it occurs is that God acted in this Church created, in this communion. It is from this as-Assembly gushing the Eucharist. And of course feast »
Supreme magisterium of Paul VI, which clarifies all the concepts expressly rejected and denied by Kiko Arguello in his heretical catechesis:
«Tuttavia, Fratelli Esteemed, they are not missing, precisely the matter that we now treat, reasons of serious pastoral concern and anxiety, of which the consciousness of Our Apostolic office does not allow us to be silent. Well we know that among those who speak and write of this Most Holy Mystery there are some that some private Masses, the dogma of transubstantiation and eucharistic worship, disclose certain opinions that disturb the minds of the faithful ingerendovi some confusion about the truths of faith, as if anyone was permissible to put into oblivion doctrine already defined by the Church, or interpret it so that the genuine meaning of the words or the recognized force of the concepts will remain enervated. It is not permissible, tanto per portare un esempio, exalting the Mass so called "community" so as to detract from the private Mass; or insist on the sacramental sign as if the symbolism, They all certainly admit in the Holy Eucharist, fully express the way of Christ's presence in this sacrament; or to discuss the mystery of transubstantiation without mentioning the marvelous conversion of the whole substance of the bread into the body and of the whole substance of the wine into the blood of Christ, conversion mentioned by the Council of Trent, so that they are nothing more than "transignification" and "transfinalization" as they; or finally to propose and act upon the opinion according to which in the consecrated Hosts remained after the celebration of the sacrifice of the Mass Our Lord Jesus Christ would no longer present [S.S. Paul VI: Enciclica mystery. On the doctrine and worship of the Holy Eucharist, NN. 9-11].
_______
Having said that we say dear Averroes, she would assume discourse of ordinary magisterium and extraordinary and so to follow: the authentic teaching on the Eucharist and more, is that of Paul VI and that of the false prophet and the bad teacher Kiko Arguello?
I compared them to him, uno dietro l’altro, but I did it with a certainty: in any case she will not understand and will go hunting rigor of some other quirk or little word, convinced as all the fools to be smarter and more knowledgeable of all.
He wants to decide, a good time, to stop scocciarci with his comments without criterion, of logic and sense of reason?
Everything else is in my book.
Ariel S. Levi di Gualdo
I agree with the proposal to consult the Papa.Per please contact Don Ariel, the Holy Father and show your book and tell him what it says qua.Però ask:If the Pope and asked him to withdraw the book and to give up his crusade,obey the?Also still I look that shows the minimum document confirming that the Way and Kiko are eretici.Anzi seen running from the Pope to ask him if I walk and Kiko are eretici.Qualora the Pope were to tell you that you are wrong you corregerebbe?I seem to have been either emotional or emotional,Buna with peace of redazione.Grazie
… no, better not.
Better that the Holy Father does not know my book, I say this for your own good.
Because if the law, You run the risk that I appoint president of the Pontifical Council for the Laity.
This would not be good for you.
Il cammino neocatecumenale é stato disobbediente alla chiesa dal primo giorno che é esistito,basti pensare che quelli che hanno fatto questo cammino per ben 40 anni hanno vagato da soli senza alcuna approvazione da parte della chiesa e già da soli si dicevano cattolici.
Io quando sono entrata pochi anni fa mi sono fatta trascinare perché dalle informazioni prese mi hanno assicurata che era un movimento che aiutava la chiesa e che fossero cattolici (c’era il prete alle catechesi!!!!….) e nonostante l’ok da parte della Santa Sede mi sentivo spaesata e confusa, poi io stessa mi facevo forza proprio per il fatto che loro continuamente ci parlavano del papa e di quanto apprezzava questo cammino, poi grazie a Dio sono uscita fuori da questo inferno……
Vorrei però fare una domanda:MA COME AVETE FATTO AD ANDARE AVANTI PER TUTTO QUESTO TEMPO A IMMAGINI E SOMIGLIANZE DEI TESTIMONI DI GEOVA?SENZA CHE ANCORA NON ERAVATE PARTE DELLA CHIESA? Ora vi esaltate dicendo siamo stati approvati e credete di essere super cattolici,ma prima?
@ Massimiliano,
Declare the bad faith and suggest that the fathers of the Island of Patmos, or who else postman untrue for the sole purpose of denigrating the path and defend abusers, matches fully with the mindset of the Neocatechumenal.
If these things do ye, it is said that the need to do the other.
Discredit the Church, preti in the Messe, and all Christians, your specialization is always. “I had never met a single Christian in my life” Kiko told him early in his “opera” , dopo i Cursillos: or he had been incredibly unlucky or would bring discredit.
To suggest for groped to defend, is typically Neocatechumenal: not to admit the defiance accuse others. I have the skin test of the slanders spread on me to destroy my reputation, only envy and “kill me”, since not allineavo me to their methodologies. I have destroyed.
But once you know the method, It does not give more credit to the cockle spreaders, even when they attribute to the Pope's words that come only from the reports of Kiko unilateral or its marketers.
I add my testimony dating back to 2001: on me Neocatechumenals rejected by then my parish on the outskirts of Florence put around a voice teacher Siena married with family, I attended, It was my lover.
In their eagerness to throw discredit on me immediately following the principle “bastonane one to frighten 100” (as even other priests associated with the old “school Sandpipers” they intended to reject them), premurarono not even inquire, and they rushed so blindly.
The teacher in question was in fact my sister, married to a Sienese and moved to Siena, after marriage.
In simile situazione, as well as having committed a serious sin for an illicit relationship with a woman, to that sin it is so added a shame more shameful and serious: incest.
A volte, in their rush to immediately impress in every way, They do not ensure even investigate about people that hit.
That says a lot about many things, comprendonio even …
Sorry for all, but do you really think the comments of luc, Fabio etc.. What harm idiot, idiot and everything else, in a manner so blatant they are true? Even an idiot would understand that comments owl, useful only to discredit a category of people who hate, in this case the neocatechumens. The same ploy used by the observatory blog, liberissimi di farlo, but be aware that with these cheap tricks you can fool just some silly, But smart people do not falls.
Kind regards
Massimiliano Conti.
Read the comments of priests who have had legal issues with the Neocatechumenal and that resolved with sentences delivered by the Italian criminal courts for crimes ranging from aggravated defamation physical aggression. He claims that all these people are not really priests, but they are only “owl comments” invented out of whole cloth to your discredit the Mephistopheles preparation of this magazine that sows hatred towards the holy and pneumatological Neocatechumenal.
In saying this, But bear in mind that I have all the copies of court documents and those of convictions, for as sure as that for my costume and setting, without evidence, not only I would not write a book, but I not write their own even a syllable.
In that case will then claim – and one as she will do, but if he does! – that the acts in question are not authentic but they are all packaged false documents to discredit the greatest gift of the Holy Spirit to the Church in two thousand years: the Neocatechumenal Way.
Ariel S. Levi di Gualdo
Maximilian C. he claims: “Sorry for all, but do you really think the comments of luc, Fabio etc.. What harm idiot, idiot and everything else, in a manner so blatant they are true?”
Look … I do not know if they are true, but if someone were published sent them.
One thing is certain for me: In the 2002 me an angry group of the Neocatechumenal, in a parish in Salerno, dentro la chiesa, at the end of commissioning, they called me “asshole, “asshole”, “dickhead”, making melody out of turn to St. John Paul II, who they say had approved them across.
At the consummation of the fact there were a few dozen people, and I had to appease the wrath of a group of men who were about to put their hands on him, outraged by the insult made by that group of the Neocatechumenal to a priest inside the church at the end of the Mass.
Hence, given that the comments which she alludes were also false, I guarantee that his “correligionari” in reality they have done a lot worse, and not just with me.
at the material time I had 60 year old, today I have 77, But that episode I just can not forget this day.
___________________
Memorandum on Ariel S. Levi di Gualdo
When during the writing of the book “The sect Neocatechumenal” I have collected many testimonies of Italian priests, the author of this comment, as many others, He gave me a detailed written report and signed that here reported.
I catechists came to threaten me in the sacristy (In the 2004) because after that I had prevented the celebration of “messa kikiana” on Saturday night in the local parish, which created huge obstacles and problems in all parish activities, having neither me nor any other priest ready to celebrate for them, they invited a priest from Rome came from the Redemptoris Mater Seminary. Of this immediately informed the archbishop of Pisa, all'epoca mons. Alessandro Plotti, He sat and let him know that without the permit could not invite extra diocesan ordinary diocesan priests to celebrate in our diocese in or outside churches.
And they were picking on me, without going all the subtle, ma in maniera molto, really heavy.
Of this I have written testimony made to Father Ariel during the writing of his book.
Dear Priest of Salerno, the comments of a few lines bearing only insults, Comments are blatantly flirt, sent by “haters of the Neocatechumenal Way” and on the web there are a few, just to discredit a group of people, Christians like you, who are the Neocatechumenal. The issues that brought criminally relevant, I hope that they are scrutinized and judged, but they can not be represented as a fault of all the Neocatechumenal. Remember that the Neocatechumenal in the world are a million and a half people and if someone misses sin is his, is personal and is not serious do the whole herb bundle, as they said the ancient sages.
Kind regards
Massimiliano Conti
"The issues of criminal law that you carry, I hope that they are scrutinized and judged »
Then you, law and then just do not understand! But what it would have to “winnow”? Here we are not talking about cases being studied or awaiting trial, but convictions by courts dates.
"I remind you that the Neocatechumenal in the world are a million and a half people and if someone misses his sin '.
But it is natural! Sin is personal, God forbid. But, when the sinner and the sin rests, covered and protected inside, to save the sin and the sinner the image of the purity of the whole “clan”, at that point, the responsability, become collective.
The priest catenese, under, told her that after being slapped … "A month later he was in Catania the great messiah Kiko, informed happened, He did not say a word, let alone the priest tried to apologize ".
In this case, Kiko, informed, not acting, It has been complicit in a grave sin: the aggression of a priest, committing his part a grave sin of omission.
And Kiko is your founder and supreme leader, it's not a “Maverick” any.
Example: If a priest commits a grave error, a crime, and the bishop and the presbytery, che lo sanno, the cover and justify, or even make and just simply ignore it, at that point, the bishop and all the priests, are responsible, and can not then say, in front of a possible scandal, that sin is personal, the individual, if they have it covered and protected, or even and only if they simply do not act.
Is that clear this or not?
I feel real sorry for her sincere, because she is a true sophist, able to justify the unjustifiable by reasons that do not hold up, especially on the floor of the basilar logic.
Do you mind even numbers, it is not true that the Neocatechumenal Way are in the world a million and a half, why are you to be in your number people registered in 1968, none of which has never died and no one has ever come out … only uninterrupted revenue. Just attend a few times and then not be able to see more, which was counted in the statistics.
The Neocatechumenal groups are not thriving, I am getting older, young people less and less, the children of large families, when after the age take the flight they leave in large numbers, often live with a sense of deep hatred the memory of the Catholic Church, believing that you are the most true and perfect image of the Catholic Church. And they hate the Catholic Church for everything to which you have subjected them to your interior, from falsehood and hypocrisy.
Salerno Priest, I'm really surprised to hear a priest speak in this way and give the liar and sophist who knows.
I gladly leave your wars against the Neocatechumenal and heretics. The Inquisition and the witch hunt was an ugly chapter in the history of the Catholic Church, maybe some real heresy has been eradicated, but certainly also many innocent people have ended at the stake. Page that you would like to reopen modern inquisitors, but thank God, Pope Francis has certainly more discerning of you and never misses an opportunity to bless the Way and to guarantee the faith of a million and a half people who follow the Way of the world. Now I really leave you, and I promise not to answer more, but I invite you to meditate while you hurled with such violence, even verbal, to other Catholics, the faithful should “feed” leave the church, you sbattezzano, join cults (quelle vere, Jehovah's Witnesses, Almighty god, scientology, Soka Gakkay… Ecc.) and go by magicians.
Then, gentle priest of Salerno, do you really think that the million and a half people who are part of the journey, are "members" of 1968?that is, the year of the birth of the Way? In this case it's me that I tell you that in the 1968 the neocatechumens were much less, just a few communities in Rome. And then call the "members", the apartments on the Neocatechumenal Way, means not being clear what the catechumenate.
Kind regards
Massimiliano Conti
Thank you for giving yet another proof of the fact that she raises questions, the other party answers to its questions by indicating how and where she was wrong, after which she resumed the conversation without answering the central question of substance to dispute with another, or taking a little phrase and build upon it a new case, a new controversy.
Is called, this, sophistry low alloy.
The central question of substance to which I have responded, but she totally circumvents this in its second reply, was that relating to the sin, that is personal, as you rightly reminded. In very articulately I answered that sin is so personal, but in certain situations can become “collective” O “common responsibility shared” by whole groups, community or society. In this regard I brought the painful example of the hypothetical case of a bishop or a presbytery that protect and cover a priest guilty of serious crimes or conduct, or knowing that his actions do nothing to stop it and pretend not to know. In this way, I explained how all, then, They would be responsible and guilty.
This was the central theme, but she has not quite understood, He wants to understand and, after wrong, flies over and part of other subjects and plays the role of the persecuted victim from the bad haters.
I reiterate that from 1968, start date of the Neocatechumenal Way, has begun to register and count the followers, and that from that date to follow there was a constant increase in subscribers, irrespective of deaths, the many people who have left the Way, of those who participated in a few weeks after they withdrew. All these are part of those fantastic counts that take you to round the number of subscribers to a million and a half followers.
Remember that in the diocese of Guam, your leaders declared in the area a number of Neocatechumenal that was even greater than the number of the faithful of the diocese indicated Pontifical Yearbook, etc … etc …
I repeat, however, that the central question, proditoriamente baffled, was that of personal sin, you raised, and to which I have responded, to show her how and why she has this wrong.
The effort you make to smooth the Pope, get him on your side, to pass it at all costs to one of your, for your main and biggest supporter, It is pathetic and childish. Needless to indicate how many times, and in which stringent tones, Pope Francis has also rebuked so hard. I find written and documented in the book by Father Ariel, if you read it.
Pope Francis backs, holds, blesses and approves from top to bottom the Neocatechumenal, just as Pope John Paul II could have claimed, to bless, approval from top to bottom the Communists and Marxism.
But I repeat: quote them from first to last the harsh and severe speeches of Pope Francis reproach you addressed, it would be waste of time, She would deny the sun, the moon and the solar system, because of this are reduced brainwashed which then mutate in turn plagiarists.
"The Inquisition and the witch hunt was an ugly chapter in the history of the Catholic Church, maybe some real heresy has been eradicated, but certainly also many innocent people have ended at the stake ".
Caro Massimiliano C.
I'm afraid I really think she is a firecracker exploded in his ears and then be put to see a scary movie on the radio in black and white, then trying to make everyone believe that this is absolutely possible and real.
I answer only and exclusively on the merits of his unfortunate joke on the Inquisition and the witch-hunt, premettendole amiably that she is ignorant as much and as its Chief Kiko said that over the years of authentic historical bestiality on pre-Constantinian Church in post-Constantinian, polluting the minds with them to all of you, you take his word as if it were Moses descended from Mount Sinai with the Ten Commandments.
Since Cape, to follow with the followers, without knowing your discourse and your claim without realizing of your gross historical errors, is not to be considered single path of a passionate accident, but it is in your way of life institutionalized.
The Neocatechumenal should not study, does not know, It should not sweat years to acquire a knowledge of one or more branches of knowledge, why he has the Holy Spirit, then the search for knowledge is entirely superfluous.
Regarding the Inquisition and the witch hunt she is not expressed as a Catholic historian, but as one of many ignorant, sockets for cast gold black legends studied at the table and then spread by illuminists, considers reliable data.
The real or alleged witches from all over Europe should thank the Inquisition courts, who saved the lives of a large number of women accused of witchcraft.
The inquisitorial process creates a legal concept quite new and up to previously unknown: the right to protection of the accused. This concept, Today transfused in all penal codes of civilized and democratic countries of the world, It arose from the inquisitorial process.
To convict a person for alleged witchcraft and pacts with the devil, were so many and such request evidence that the absolute majority of the processes ended with the acquittal. Then, if in the course of the procedure it was also there of a slight defect in shape, the whole process was canceled and had to start over.
The inquisitorial process categorically prohibited torture, but not only: If any civil or secular authorities there had resorted, everything that the person had said under torture, It could not in any way be used against it in a procedural headquarters, and the judges could not even listen, what he had confessed.
The Dominican Inquisitor Tomas de Torquemada, turned into terrifying black legend, in some decades of activity as inquisitor condemned for witchcraft only four people, after having presided over hundreds and hundreds of processes. Above all, Torquemada, He died in true reputation for holiness.
The witches or alleged such should thank the institution of the ecclesiastical inquisition courts because they tore from the hands of civilians and secular courts. Quelli sì, that on simple denunciations and false testimonies put people at the stake.
The real inquisition made dead, no one was run by the Church but the one run by the secular powers, for example in Scotland. But most of all, making numerous deaths, It was the Protestant Inquisition, in particular the one carried out by the Calvinists.
In New Americas there was a witchcraft trial, the so-called Witches of Salem, the late seventeenth century, with which the Catholic Church had nothing to do, because it was instructed by the Calvinists, who condemned to death a hundred poor innocent women.
Quindi ci vada cauto, my dear old improvised, to affirm: "The Inquisition and the witch hunt was an ugly chapter in the history of the Catholic Church, maybe some real heresy has been eradicated, but certainly also many innocent people have ended at the stake ".
It was not at all a bad page, she says: the Catholic Church, with witch hunts and the inquisitorial process, has saved many lives collective hysteria and brisk manner and dismissive of secular courts.
Besides the fact that, thanks to the Inquisition, as I told I was born the legal principle of protection of the accused, fair trial, the need for extensive testing and real and ban the use of torture to force a confession.
I do not know what job she does, But one thing is certain, in addition to not do the theologian and the ecclesiologist, surely does not even neither historian nor the jurist.
But … It possesses the Holy Spirit.
This alone is what matters, and that's enough to be able to feel entitled to talk about everything.
Ariel S. Levi di Gualdo
Sig.Massimiliano C. , la devo correggere sul numero dei neocatecumenali.
Come prassi nota da sempre sulla formazione delle comunità neocatecumenali, si parla di piccoli gruppi, dove per piccoli gruppi si specifica max 50 people.
Le comunità del CN come affermato da Kiko nell’incontro a Porto S.Giorgio di settembre 2019 I'm 21.000.
Secondo la mia esperienza, di ex-neocatecumenale, sono molto meno, ma facciamo conto che siano 21.000.
Quindi facendo un rapido calcolo 21.000 x 50 we have 1 milione e 50.000 neocatecumenali in tutto il mondo.
Questa è la cifra massima possibile, ricordo al sig. Massimiliano che molto raramente abbiamo comunità di 50 people, dico questo perchè sono un ex-neocatecumenale che è stato 17 years in “movement” e conosco molto bene la realtà neocatecumenale di una grande città come Roma.
Posso assicurare che la media delle persone in comunità si aggira intorno alle 30 Unit.
Quindi 21.000x 30= 600.000 Unit, numero molto distante dal 1.500.000 di cui le parla nel suo commento.
Se le è possibile verifichi attentamente queste cifre e si accorgerà del suo errore.
LUCA
The consideration of priests who can also be seen in the burial mausoleum built in a hurry to Carmen's death.
Under the pagoda neocatechumenal, indeed, stand two huge white marble tiled tombs, one for Carmen and Kiko , both elevated from the ground.
“Behind” you do not even notice the low shot white marble slab which I assume is meant to Spare. On the contrary, me lo auguro, otherwise the “international team” would remain incomplete part of Priestly. Better than nothing…
Nemmeno “equal dignity” post mortem. Just when the true “initiators and founders” are the two reached Spaniards sprung from nowhere, but the poor parts, the priest, He has faithfully served them from the earliest years, poverello.
Therefore, in Redemptoris Mater Seminar Madrid, the ministerial part is second-rate and two lay people revere.
He always talked about “international team”, but it was always implied that there was no “equal dignity”: the real team was one of the two LAY FOUNDERS, The third priest was and is simply an addition, which only serves to show that they are with the Church.
Even in death, Spare is always “dietro”…
Gentile don Ariel,
I do not need to contact anyone to answer to his simple question. Of course it is right, the Priest is coated etc.…, but as Pope Francis says Jesus was covered with greater dignity: He was the son of God and became the servant of all. But she is a simple priest and despise all those who are against it, women, lay poor and who knows how many others. Meditate egregio don Ariel. Regarding the discussion with Averroes, I only read it in explicit questions addressed to him, you have responded with many questions that you demand answers. It is not serious.
Dear Don Ariel Inquisitor, I leave it to his pursuit of heretics and witches with the words of Pope Francis on clericalism. We Meditate on it.: https://it.aleteia.org/2017/01/10/il-papa-lautorita-di-gesu-deriva-dal-servizio-il-clericalismo-disprezza-la-gente/
E’ She lives with contempt, because educated and instigated the katekiko contempt of all that is not the Neocatechumenal. So, like all his cronies, accuses others to exercise that contempt instead it exerts giving her essay by a further, confirmed and obvious alteration of the facts.
She mystifies and in fact denies the history of all these comments, they feel and speak for themselves:
1. I was verbally assaulted by his brother sectarian;
2. this sectarian his brother he started throwing thunder and lightning on a book he has not read;
3. He has repeatedly attacked the author of a work that does not know, attributing things that not only has never written, but that just never thought.
Then, with the same style she spoke, which in turn has not read the book and does not know the contents, putting a scolding and making references to an unspecified obedience to the Church and the Popes. And the Neocatechumenal reminiscent of obedience to the Church and the Popes, equivalent to Cicciolina that draws women to chastity.
So, after sticking and in turn not responded, tried to manipulate facts and manipulated for use and consumption of their own sect, the words of the Supreme Pontiff completely alter and split from their context.
I repeat: this is proven and documented history, deniable only by people who have serious relationship problems with reality.
Gentile don Ariel,
His contempt for women and taking it to the poor lay blame for not having his dignity equal to angels is before the eyes of all, if you want the monster screenshots. Even his Kiko-phobia is plain for all to see, since it does not miss a post to remember him with terms such as “katekiko”, “kikiano holy spirit” etc.
Now if you kindly wanted to show me one place where I would have shown contempt for everything “It is not the Neocatechumenal” le sarei grato, I saw in many years during the Way, I worked in the pastoral care of several parishes in my area (oratorio, confirmations, communions etc..). I let her back to his inquisitorial work and hunt for heretics, but I beg you to meditate on the article that I posted before. Cordially greet
Massimiliano Conti.
It's really the person least suited to be accused of contempt for women, to which she not even imagine what I have on the human level, moral and spiritual.
She has invented this accusation against me just not to the merits of the matter. Then we clarify: I responded in kind to a dear Reader that made me lessons on good behavior for Priests, knowing that a priest, directives of behavior or deserved reproaches, them to him can only direct his bishop, il quale peraltro, so delicate, it will always in private, certainly not by contacting the priest in public in front of everyone, how did that dear lady in her comments.
Said this: she should not take it out on me, but with the Blessed Apostle Paul. Since, however, he does not have the courage to do, behold, according to the established technique neokatetica take my answer, manipulates, He pulls out what they want and then try to make me say what I really did not say.
Anyhow, if he wants you to meet another great despiser of women: John Paul II, who dared to silence your “santa” Carmen after she, per ben due volte, She interrupted him as he spoke to correct it.
John Paul II, that at this point you might also consider a great misogynist and despiser of women, He answered sfacciatissima and maleducatissima Carmen with the same words of the Apostle Paul Blessed: "The woman, taccia!».
And do not tell me you did not know this fact, proven and documented.
It's been three decades but the Vatican will always remember all, why nobody, but mostly no, She had never dared to do such a thing.
But, When one is filled with the Holy Spirit, We can also point the finger at the Pope and stop twice while talking.
After the Supreme Pontiff, the third attempt to break and correction, He replied in kind.
But on the other hand, John Paul II, exactly how it is recognized by her to me, probably despised women.
Come on, stop being ridiculous and to charge people what they did not say, written and thought: cool it.
I despise that women who were chosen to announce to the Apostles the resurrection of Christ?
I despise that women who were the first and the biggest supporters of my priestly vocation?
But please!
Ariel S. Levi di Gualdo
I read to the bottom of your comment, sig. Massimiliano, I came back and I opened the link with which wants to catechize Don Ariel, curious.
I find that you sew a brush of Kiko and Itinerant he pulled up in his image and likeness. Clericalisti hypocrites Comandini and lovers of power. And I wonder how can you be so blind! A twist,so the reality.
Pax
The Holy Father says: “The authority of Jesus therefore is real, that of the Pharisees is only formal.”
1 Sacher, in virtue of the sacrament of the Order, sono degli “Alter Christus”.
The Pharisees, as are the megacatechisti neocat, They are just the laity.
Massimiliano, fai 2 + 2 and draw your conclusions from only.
The public fool the book…..and the Pope blesses for the umpteenth Volta the Way!!!
Kill gualdi serbelloni gazzanti viendalmare tonacarvento…..you're a myth!!!
Thanks to exist!!!
Appeal to all fellow priests.
We must try to inform the Holy Father and to invite him to be careful and also give just a blessing of the Neocatechumenal circumstance or make him a polite smile, because as you can see from the comments of this great gentleman, a blessing or a smile can be changed instantly into a dogma of the Catholic faith.
Knowing Ariel dad I laughed reading this latest sequel of insults, because I imagined the poor Luc that he had said things like that in the face to the person concerned, ending shortly after for a couple of months at the nearest orthopedic traumatology department.
In the end even this serves Internet: to insult without running the risk of ending up in hospital.
A true grace of God.
Don ciro……thank God, the Pope received more than [CENSORED]
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NOTE ABOUT COMMENT CENSORED BY EDITORIAL
His comment does not enter into the debate, but attacks in insulting way a person, however offending priest on the comments page of a Catholic magazine directed by priests.
We recall in this regard that The Island of Patmos is a magazine, with regular registration on the rolls and with a responsible manager in writing in the relevant records pertaining to the Order of Journalists of Lazio. It is not a "shot" blog on the network by anonymous individuals who have created can let off steam against persons of public pages on which many people without an identity on the internet, Institutions and Things.
If us to pass comments in which he insults a person or an institution, if the comment was apparent defamation in the press and by electronic means of public communication, the Site Manager he should respond criminally in court, because he is in every sense of responsible law of defamatory comments published.
Know that Luc, and others who have posted similar comments, are not “loose dogs”, O “isolated cases” O “almost limit”.
Not at all!
instead They are the real and concrete paradigm of what is the attitude of the Neocatechumenal generally towards us parish priests, if we dare to issue a single sigh doubtful of some of their styles, liturgie, catechesis, etc ..
With the same style and tone of Luc, many Neocatechumenal, and I repeat many, They have turned, early twenties, the pastors of 70 year old.
This is reality, especially by us in Rome, where dozens of parishes have polluted for decades.
Poor Luc and related!
When Father Ariel wrote his book I will I gave an entire case file with a lot of conviction of the criminal court judge of the city of “X”.
Or do you think that we speak to give breath to the mouths, without proof, as you do in practice you?
The fact: after a series of disagreements with … neokatekiki, expelled from the parish Neocatechumenals, with the approval of the bishop declared that the situation “objectively untenable for the good of the parish”.
Shortly after they began to circulate rumors that I was a pedophile.
I go straight to the point: I denounced the fact, They were without the necessary investigations and two years after three Neocatechumenal catechists were convicted of defamation with a series of aggravating recognized that I will not explain.
And I'm not the only case.
We have the evidence in hand, you just hate and gossip, My poor Luc and related.
(I respond to Don Paul in Rome and signed letter from an Italian priest)
I am a priest Catania, our diocese invaded by the Neocatechumenal despite the attempts made at the time by Msgr. Luigi Bommarito to put an Brake, senza riuscirvi.
I also had with some of the Neocatechumenal a matter of legal 20 Years ago, and there was even if my complaint, a trial and a conviction, because I was physically assaulted in the local parish. One of them gave me holy evangelizers one so strong slap hitting with the palm of his ear open hand, I heard that for a week, also feared damage to the eardrum. Instead I got away with a reduction of 25/30% of hearing in that ear capacity.
One month later, in Catania the great messiah Kiko, informed happened, He did not say a word, let alone the priest tried to apologize.
So am I, Ariel father, when he worked on his book, I gave copies of all these documents.
Amen!
Averroes.. you know one you know them all..
possible that you can not enter into the merits but only to rip: Papa…Papa…Papa…?
The Pope should be listened to 360 °.
It corrected countless times.
But you make a deaf ear.
This is the sum of what the Pope has for you!
instrumentalized all.
You also walkers are exploited, non ve ne rendete conto?
And the bishops and parish priests, Kiko classifies them know how? Those who recognize his charisma -INDISCUTIBILMENTE AUTHENTIC just because he says so – They have the Holy Spirit. Those who do not recognize it are tools of the devil to destroy the Holy Way: Pharaohs.
Sure why Kiko exalted thought to be the new Moses. On him no one can make discernment, while he discerns each and every thing. But Kiko has a spiritual director? Just see how reduced the Don Mario Pezzi who is half a century at his side, an absolute nullity.
I met bishops and parish priests who after having “met” were both proven to have even physical illnesses.
A bishop told me that he was physically worn out because of arrogant and immoral Carmen, but what he had said “great woman” He could not even report it…
Our brother Francis of Naples has centered the problem, like others, as the Florentine Michele.
I was struck by the words of the Florentine brother because it raises a terrible question how real wondering: imagine a parish with dozens of Averroes in the parish.
We all understand that today is the most the "dogma" of the migrant, but to us priests in charge of the care of God's people, Who protects us? Because the single pastor, alone, He can not defend themselves by dozens and dozens of “out of mind” that found in the parish rooted for twenty or thirty years. They soon the faithful to say ... that the pastor throw them out. but then, the faithfuls, not only they return to their home with their families while the priest remains however only, but often, the faithful do not Neocatechumenal, after they have made their outbursts and expressed their discontent towards the Neocatechumenal, al parroco, leave him alone and not support it in any way.
consequence? He explained Don Michael of Florence the consequence to which he as our other brothers have gone through ... "in less than two years, quei 52 Averroes made me grow old all at once than ten years'.
And then the alternative which would be?The empty or closed parishes?When he threw out the CN then after those who remain?Just benches?So she would be a martyr,martyred by the Way?Let me get,the Way him martyred?And if I were many priests that I have seen with my eyes elencassi the scandalous behavior?How many people did they walk away from the parish and from the many wrong behaviors of many of his brethren?We want to talk about this although I esteem and respect for priests.
We speak instead of superneocatecumenale bishop of Guam, convicted of pedophilia, after he neocatecumenalizzata a whole diocese.
Then we also give another explanation: How come, he card. Theodor McCarrick, recognized as a serial molester, removed from the dignity of cardinal and then dismissed from the clerical state, He resides now in one of your Redemptoris Mater seminaries?
He was your great friend and supporter, or not?
Well, instead talk about the "scandalous behavior of many priests that I have seen with my eyes", tell us about the behavior of these two powerful your friends: one, a pedophile bishop blown, the other, Cardinal a recognized and condemned as dangerous serial offender.
Tell us about them, who protected you and you have loved me so much …
The first is this idiot who wrote the book….famous in certain circles
No, among the famous I am not the first, even the second, even the third and so on to follow.
In fact, as noted above Don Angelo, with a question remained unanswered, famous are certain your friends and protectors, by the Bishop of Guam to Cardinal Theodor McCarrick.
In fact I could never be as famous as your great protector hyper-neocatechumenal-pedophile bishop of Guam, caught in the act and found guilty by ecclesiastical law for serious crimes, while Kiko jumped on stage as an irresponsible buffoon inviting all its brainwashed to pray for our brothers of Guam, subjected to terrible persecution.
May, I could be as famous as your friend and another great protector, Cardinal Theodor McCarrick deposed by Cardinal and then discharged from the clerical state as molester and serial predator.
The people she listed acting on behalf of the Pope to praise his book?Oh this is beautiful!I did not know that there was a department that endorse books of anti Way theologians and against Papa.Che value is the subjective opinion of these people she listed?No values are personali.Beh opinions'm sorry but she had not said only considers the defining teaching and final?Now he is saying that he consulted these foo? She did not give a damn about the Pope's Way to praise,I explain to me why something should scrub the praise of these gentlemen to his book?But show me an official document of the Catholic Church,which lends credence to his thesis and take in considerazione.Le repeat the question:The Pope approves what you wrote?I really do not think so!If so his behavior is severe. I repeat the question,which did not respond:Show me an official document of the Church defining and definitive condemning officially and clearly, the path and / or Kiko ,as heretics and I will buy her libro.Per courtesy,she is a theologian is serious,He does not see that miserable figure is doing in front of his associates?I cla please!
Dear Readers,
I leave you all to assess how, un Neocatekiko, dopo avere “messo in croce” a nonsense behind the other, anziché tacere, attempts to overthrow once again the omelette, change the tone and topple him from the person other disputes.
The psychotic logic is clear: aggrediscono, then if someone points out the glaring inaccuracies and nonsense they said, even spill all to groped to hit back the caller. Always and practices without considering the merits of what is being disputed.
Who allowed these people to take the field within the Catholic Church, by Popes in good faith to the diocesan bishops, He has committed a serious, serious mistake both of assessment or pastoral.
Now Averroes take this last sentence to explain that I am against the Popes excommunicated and I go on the spot …
Ariel S. Levi di Gualdo
And okay, but even now he responded!!Patience I recited the SS.Rosario,ten for lei.Solo the SS Virgo can something!Good first vespers of Sunday.
It is useless to Averroes, will not answer, than they denigrate to tear you down, and with this hope to ridicule your topics. But people who read are not as stupid as they think, and when they read that a priest gets angry with a woman because he dared to resume, even hear hear in public. Then the same priest gets angry with a poor layman who dares to vigorously argue with a priest, udite udite … super mega Theologian even with the double surname, maybe even noble means, I wonder then, with those who had it when Pope Francis condemned the CLERICALISM that reigns in the Church.
Massimiliano Conti
Dear Massimiliano Conti,
The following comments trial so not subject to denial that if there is a person who has evaded all questions, not responding and always changing the subject in front of any question, he is Averroe. Read the comments following, because the whole is not really subject to denial.
I note that only catechists stuffed Kiliano “Holy Spirit”, rant may not ever be taken from anyone when public enunciate, serious and blatant heresies, Why … who is against them, It is against God.
I remember them – prove it writings here published by his close friend, you just need to read them – that the “poor layman” to which you refer is not at all limited neither to criticize nor contestarmi – these things perfectly legitimate -, but rather he attacked me with arrogance and vehemence, discoursing and cutting off a book he has not read a single page. And since it does not know what is my work, It started to imputarmi facts, things and statements that are not completely contained in my essay on “The sect Neocatechumenal”.
So for her it is serious discourse, criticize and put down what you do not know because you do not own bed?
Know finally that when the Holy Father condemns clericalism, It condemns the ones like you: that claim to secularize the ministers of the sacred and clericalize sacredly lay catechists, moreover ignorant and heretics, as evidenced by the facts, alone and nothing but the facts.
Question purely theological whole turned to her: it is true or not true, that the sacrament of grace, regardless of their holiness or less, the priests of Christ, They are covered with a dignity that is higher than that of the same angels of God?
Answer this question, if anything, after having consulted his mega-catechist.
Ariel S. Levi di Gualdo
Answering certain obscure figures such as Averroes or anyone is how to make a delicious cake and aesthetically beautiful,the result of hours of work,and then take it in full and give it to feed a pig.
The evidence for true Christians are numerous in recent times … heresies, apostasy, corruptions, violenze,murders, drugs, pornography…. The devil knows that it is very little time left! It does everything to snatch God as many souls as possible! And it serves you Averroes and all the heads of “carlo” Comets … You suffocate in your own pride and arrogance! But God is waiting until the last… You are still time … and read the book by Father Ariel! A masterpiece… air … air… air… air!
She realizes that continues to launch accusations, not answer on the merits, replicate with other topics, turning his own words, and so on? Or do you really think, being an elected stuffing kikiano “Holy Spirit”, that we are the idiots unable to grasp all its painful expressive behavioral psychoses?
She did not give a single answer, He attacked, changed topics, overturned the sentences … read what he wrote, it's all in chronological order.
Dear Don Francesco,
try to imagine me pastor of 38 anni all’epoca, a priest for just four, sent by the bishop in a parish where there were media 52 Neocatechumenal divided into four groups. Good, imagine having to fight not with one but with 52 Averroe, if not worse.
After less than two years asked to be removed from that parish.
I was allowed.
The friends asked my family members to harm themselves or if they were sick, because in less than two years, quei 52 Averroes made me grow old than ten years all at once.
I read in one breath the book by Father Ariel … It is a jewel, a masterpiece! Above all, an act of justice to all of us priests for these people, often, we also played physical health, e io ne conosco, of priests for the Neocatechumenal they have compromised even health, and many bishops they know many, many more than me.
Well and if the Neocatechumenals she fought they were right?Ever you thought of this possibility?
And, they could be right in the same way that the snake, that is, the devil, He could be right when he instigated the rebellion Adam and Eve by telling them … “and become like God”.
Come ha ragione a dire tutto ciò che ha già detto, tanto nei suoi libri quanto pure nei suoi garbatissimi commenti, dear father Ariel! Quanto coraggio e gioia per seguire il vero Signore delle anime, il nostro Preziosissimo Gesù Cristo, ci da la sua coraggiosa e verace testimonianza del Vangelo unico! Con la gioia nel cuore La ringrazio! Laudetur Jesus Cristus!
And she realizes the gravity of what he says Don Ariel?The Pope has something for you?But the devil's work is chiara.E’ a divisore.Le seems that Don Ariel responded?
Carissimo Averroè,
as it complains that you do not respond to his questions, if it allows some questions I hand it to him I. As she preaches well and scratching better I'm sure it will respond in a comprehensive and accurate taking off all doubts.
1) E’ true that St. John Paul II was convinced that the journey would last at most 7 year old?
2) E’ true that the path you wanted to keep secret the so-called “Arinze's letter” which contained the liturgical regulations of Benedict XVI to you? E’ true that for a long time it was said that those “It was not the words of the pope, but free to Arinze considerations”, only to be denied then by the same Pope in open court?
3) E’ true that the Pope expressed the hope that the mamotreti CORRECTED were made public or be consulted by all?
4) E’ mamotreto true that the next stage of the election or that of SPIRITUAL MARRIAGE was never scrutinized by any committee?
5) E’ true that Pope Francis was “intercepted” at the airport in Buenos Aires departing for the conclave by the heads of the journey in Argentina or is it just an urban legend ?…
6) It 'true that in open court Kiko Arguello complained to Pope Francis that all parishes avesso not the way inside?
7) It 'true that the same Kiko Arguello has publicly referred to as "persecution" for the child abuse investigation against the then Bishop of Guam Apuron, which is an active member of the journey (up to impose it to anyone who wanted to enter the seminary in Guam) as well as definitely convicted for the crimes above with express decision of Pope Francis? It 'true that there is no declaration of Kiko about it after conviction?
In light of the questions that I did, tip: Way in the words and decisions of Popes count something?
6) E’ true that in open court Kiko Arguello complained to Pope Francis that all parishes avesso not the way inside?
7) E’ true that the same Kiko Arguello has publicly defined as “persecution” the pedophile investigation against the then Bishop of Guam Apuron, which is an active member of the journey (up to impose it to anyone who wanted to enter the seminary in Guam) as well as definitely convicted for the crimes above with express decision of Pope Francis? E’ true that there is no declaration of Kiko about it after conviction?
In light of the questions that I did on the way the words and decisions of Popes count something?
Averroe,
She realizes that for decades you have disobeyed the Church and the Popes, making your liturgy, your set, your catechisms, your net … and now you have even the audacity to come and talk to us priests, that the Church have always served and obeyed, authority of the Pope, we have always respected?
It was us, or it has been the focus of satanic arrogance of Mr. Kiko, out of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith who had dared to admonish the catechisms heretics, saying that a catechism with such adjustments would not have never accepted?
Have the decency to stay at least shut up, not to come to invoke the authority of the popes that you have circumvented, ma, above all, not to treat us as if we were priests emeritus bischeri, as they say in my part.
That's the end they do the priests who open a window to diavolo.A Satan takes very little to seduce,first of all i want it to be preti.Cosa?Let them also sell well as some books, do delude ourselves that it is the "savior" of the Church. Luther did the same?Don Ariel will go the way of all the other,It will gain five minutes of fame and then disappear for sempre.Mi feel I advise him to quit,if you do not want to encounter reminders of the Holy See,Attention is not a threat. He will call sooner or later,or make worse,Pope Francis is not afraid of schism,He heard it,Don Ariel?It should be ignored and you should pray for him and for all the members of the clergy who do everything except what must do.And 'just a marketing operation, there will be fools who buy his books?Too bad for them,people seem to love the trash.
It 's true that not all the magisterium of definition and it is not definitive,They belong to the magisterium fede.L'insegnamento defining the dogma of the Church, however, is much broader dogmi.Inoltre not all of the Church's teaching is definitivo.Però next to defining and definitive magisterium is the authentic ordinary Magisterium which, as the Council says, the Christian (Bishops included)They must pay "religious" TREAT "of will and intellect" (LG 25).I remember Don Ariel the document "Profession of Faith and Oath of Allegiance" The Profession of faith required for this type of teaching it this way: "The third proposition of the Profession of Faith says: "Moreover, I adhere with religious submission of will and intellect to the teachings of the Roman Pontiff or the College of Bishops enunciate when they exercise their authentic Magisterium, although they do not intend to proclaim these teachings by a definitive act ".At this paragraph belong all those teachings on faith and morals presented as true or at least as safe, even if they have not been defined with a solemn judgment or proposed as definitive by the ordinary magisterium and the encouragement and the Pope's praise,I am not a definitional expression definitive nor the magisterium,the rest do not remember that none of the journey has ever said something simile.Lei resembles Don Quixote,which castles imagined nonexistent,towards which scagliarsi.C'è a noticeable difference between being heretics,as she accuses be Kiko, and not be teaching the subject and defining the final Chiesa.Il Pope expresses praise and encouragement to the path and does not intend to do some definitional statements or Definitve,but it seems possible that the Holy Father may encourage the heretics?And to not make ridiculous courtesy!It does that seem possible that the Pope encourages the evangelizing work of the Way, I know ,as she claims it is heretical?If it was that the Pope would not meet the first duty of a defender of Catholic orthodoxy,allowing the heretics,to spread their errori.E 'that's what she said?Because if that then this is a position against the Pope and she should have the courage to say directly to lui.Sono serious allegations!Allegations against the Pope.
The document goes on:”It concludes: "A proposition contrary to these doctrines can be qualified as erroneous or respectively, in the case of prudential teachings as rash or dangerous and therefore "can not be taught safely”.The recall in the end the "Donum Veritatis" of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith for the theologians noted that the Magisterium has the duty of discerning, by means of judgments normative for the consciences of the faithful, those acts which in themselves conform to the demands of faith and foster their expression in life, e quelli che, on the contrary, for their intrinsic evil, They are incompatible with such experience;It has a skill that also extends to that which concerns the natural law "because of the connection that exists between the order of creation and the order of Redemption, and because of the need for knowing and observing the whole moral law in view of salvation ";It can teach infallibly moral norms which in itself may be known by natural reason, but that man's sinful condition makes it difficult to access " (DS 3005)” (n.16).also it expresses "with the help of…
I also remember Don Ariel says that the document cited:"Such teachings are, however, an authentic expression of the ordinary Magisterium of the Roman Pontiff or the College of Bishops and require, therefore, religious submission of will and intellect. They are proposed to achieve a deeper understanding of revelation, or to recall the conformity of a teaching with the truths of faith, or lastly to warn against ideas incompatible with these same truths or against dangerous opinions that can lead to error ".Caro Don Ariel has never heard in church history,that a Pope encourages and express the praise,to heretics,I urge you to demonstrate contrario.Comunque around the teaching of the Pope should be treated with respect,not just what they like.
Please do not do theologian praticone theologian with whom he really is, and this is recognized by the Church and by the Ecclesiastical, until proved otherwise not easy, because as minister in sacred and mandates, with relative Munera, I have received from the Church and not by Kiko. And on this there is no possible room for doubt.
You can manipulate awkwardly as he wants the documents and records of the Church, I did so many times in all the articles on the Neocatechumenal appeared in this magazine.
As I have done in the past, I address a question to which she must answer, instead of evading the question and go in bursts with other issues.
This is the question: my book is divided into 315 pages, It is solely based on facts, records and documents.
She, lo ha letto?
Look, the question is simple: read the book from cover to cover that would claim nip with rare arrogance and judgments offensive and unacceptable addressed publicly the Author?
As for his advice:
'I would advise him to quit,if you do not want to encounter the Holy See calls "
I'm sorry to disappoint you own, because for now, in private, from two different department heads of the Holy See, I only received thanks for your service, according to them, I made it to the church with my book "theologically ineccebile" and "historically documented". So, what about?
E’ singular, as well as ridiculous the fact that, the member of a sect that intra-ecclesial disobedience to the Church for four decades, dare do such little lesson to me, that the Church I have obeyed, always and rigor, even when obey has been particularly difficult and painful.
Shame on you, it has only a faint glimmer of Christian decency!
Ariel S. Levi di Gualdo
Since it is a theologian,also […] trashed
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NOTE OF PREPARATION
The user who posted Averroe signing two more verbose messages after answer given to him by Father Ariel, in which attacks the author of the book “The sect Neocatechumenal”, without in any way respond to the clear and precise question that in its response the Father Ariel addressed, ie if he had read the book from cover to cover that he presumes to be able to criticize with severe attacks and accusations against the author.
We note that this user is an emotional and irrational contentious that it will not in any way talk, but only attacking and mocking and, if they are addressed questions are not answered, but proceeds attacking again raising other irrelevant topics without ever giving answers to the questions that were addressed earlier.
This is the reason for which we trashed this comment.
Oh really?And sorry to name names of those department heads who would have praised please? Who I am? I am by no means neither sectarian nor a heretic,but a Catholic, apostolico, romano,loyal and obsequious to Papa.Mediti the end that made some ecclesiastical, founders of religious congregations ,until some time ago, for greater,with the wind in its sails. Lately, however, they ended up in serious disgrace and exile,because you can not defy Dio.Anche were praised by their department heads,Cardinali.Ma from where they are now? Meditate on questo.Il Pope what he thinks of his book?He did read the Holy Father?Trust the Pope is the successor of Peter and Vicar of Christ. Where minor lapses. I will pray for her.
"And do you mind the names of these department heads who would have praised please?»
Imagine if I have to justify to you that those are my private relationships with bishops and cardinals!
Apart from this: I remind you that she is a lay, with the aggravating circumstance of the most crass ignorance, that comes from the cardinal sin of pride that they have instilled in her; and a layman can not and should not afford to get on the chair like a schoolmaster, and dare to call a priest with the tones and with admonitions from her used in this comment.
All this to prove that you are a pernicious and poisonous heretical sect devoid of perception and thus of respect for priests, before which, Angels of God, step aside, given that to us, to the mystery of grace, It has been conferred a dignity higher than that of the same Angeli.
tell him, its mega-catechists, and to those of shame that priests, unaware of the dignity of which are covered by the sacrament of grace, from your mega-lay catechists you are putting your feet on the head.
Ariel S. Levi di Gualdo
Congratulations Averroes!
I can not say much but know that the Vatican has already taken the examination of the issue of this “priest” that has muddied the Way and especially the holy memory of Saint John Paul II. A matter of a short time and then settle them.
Dear Readers,
I do not answer this user but instead answer to all of you who read me, clarifying the outset that charge me to have muddy "Especially the holy memory of Saint John Paul II", is equivalent in every way to say that Santa Maria Goretti, martyr of purity, was actually a little good that as a teenager skipped merrily from one young man at that dell'Agropontino.
Aware since its writing my book was going to touch certain questionable administrative decisions occurred during the pontificates of John Paul II and Benedict XVI, which can be subject to criticism completely legitimate by clerics, theologians and lay people, before giving the prints my job I have taken care of:
1. submit the draft to two older theologians specialized respectively in ecclesiology and pastoral theology;
2. a member of the Pontifical Academy of Theology, dogmatic sacramentary eminent theologian;
3. a member of the International Theological Commission;
4. Two internationally renowned canonists;
5. a former head of department of the Holy See.
The draft of my book has passed under the eyes of seven different specialists working at the highest levels of theological knowledge at various institutions of the Holy See.
None of them – and I repeat: None – He has raised substantive issues theologically, canon, ecclesiologico e pastorale.
After the publication of the book, two department heads of the Holy See, one in charge and the other Emeritus, I thanked me profoundly grateful for the service rendered to the Church with this publication.
I Kikos They can then post comments in which they are afraid trembling methods and interventions of the Holy See against me, if anything, convinced that all of us, like them, we live in the dream world Imbecillandia, where it is true that more far-fetched and heretical invented the boss and his minions.
I regret that these people, by relating to me on these columns, Believe that I am a poor seminaretto intimidated and rinsed in the brain by their multinational heretical Seminars mother of The Redeemer. This means that unfortunately do not even have the ability to measure the opponent, and then he acts accordingly.
Therefore, wherever scribe and paventino of impending action of the Holy See against me, know that this is only the fruit of their most vivid and sick imagination and which does not correspond to any reality.
Ariel S. Levi di Gualdo
Yes, but he submitted his book to the Pope?The people that you have listed do not count quite a nulla.Le repeat the question:The Pope approves his work?He asked permission?He consulted the Holy Father,to know whether he shared his initiative?Well if she intends to act regardless of the Pope,I think both outside the Catholic faithful strada.Come invite you to reflect on what is facendo.Sta thinking that with his act,He might go against the Holy Father? Where there ecclesia.Mediti per cortesia Peter,.
But she, He realizes what is comical and ridiculous?
She says that the Ecclesiastical Authority established by the Roman Pontiff and operating on its mandate … "Do not matter a damn ' ?
So, according to what you said, all departments of the Holy See, when they decide, decree and order in the Holy Father's name, that certain decrees, decisions and nine times out of ten commandments is not remotely aware, perform illegitimate actions, true and proper abuse of power?
And all diocesan bishops of the world?
Then do one thing: proposes the immediate abolition of the dicasteries of the Holy See and the dioceses, so that no one dare ever take any kind of initiative and decision, because any approval rests solely and exclusively to the Holy Father, all other Ecclesiastical Authorities "Do not matter a damn '
She is truly and essentially three things: ridiculous, ridiculous, ridiculous.
With an awful aggravating: the insistence.
In any case thank you from my heart: lei sta dimostrando, to all our readers, what are the results and what can reduce a psycho-sect the brain of its settaristi.
I sincerely thank you!
Ariel S. Levi di Gualdo
My bishop has decided to relocate to another parish.
I'm considering whether to take the text and every reason to Averroes, introduce on Monday by Cardinal Crescenzio Sepe, and use the exact same reasons and questions:
The Pope approves his work? He asked permission? He consulted the Holy Father, to know whether he shared his initiative?Well if she intends to act regardless of the Pope, I think both outside the Catholic faithful strada.Come invite you to reflect on what is facendo.Sta thinking that with his act,He might go against the Holy Father?
Definitely, l’Arcivescovo di Napoli, when I tell him this way will laugh, because he is a man who has a sense of humor. But if unfortunately understood however that no kidding but I'm serious, I am sure you would call an ambulance and, tight inside a straitjacket, I would drag at your nearest hospital department of neurology.
I'll be back again on this statement
"Think to convince us that it is no sin to a priest row?”
To turn them demand
"Think to convince us that it is a sin to put in line Kiko Arguello?”
As he himself says “in me speaks the Holy Spirit?
And by! Even a death sin is sin against the SS. A shame that will never be forgiven.
From personal experience, having them addressed feast, I say that these are wild animals, closely resembling those described in Revelation.
The Saint, sacrosanta, battle with their intent not the mica can do flipping through the daisies, sai!
And the fault is not ours.
Pax
I was really thrilled by the words of Don Luca. Then. After the priest […]
COMMENT CENSORED BY EDITORIAL
NOTE ABOUT COMMENT CENSORED BY EDITORIAL
His comment does not enter into the debate, but offends a priest that she knows absolutely, giving judgments on him unacceptable. A priest who on the other hand we know, but above all we know the difficult and dangerous ministry that has played in a truly heroic manner by being close to contingent of soldiers (not only Italian but also of various other nationalities) in high-risk war zones.
All proof that she turns in his commentary in insulting way to a priest who just do not know.
father ariel, as editor of this magazine, It gave a precise arrangement permanent collaborators: "If during the debates someone were also insulting in the comments, The comment must be published. If, however, some commentators responded with insults to a comment made by any of my fellow priest, in that case comments should never be passed, Why The Island of Patmos It can not become a place to vent to people more or less acrimonious and disturbed that you take the liberty of offending priests'.
We recall in this regard that The Island of Patmos It is a magazine, with regular registration on the rolls and with a responsible manager in writing in the relevant records pertaining to the Order of Journalists of Lazio. It is not a blog “shot” network by anonymous individuals who have created the Internet of public pages on which many people without identity can let off steam against persons, Institutions and Things.
A then part of the priest's speech in question: if us to pass comments in which he insults a person or an institution, if the comment was apparent defamation in the press and by electronic means of public communication, the Site Manager he should respond criminally in court, because he is in every sense of responsible law of defamatory comments published.
The beauty is that they are all untrue and you are there fell for idiots
Even the epithet “idiots” it's false, or do we take it for real?
Just to figure out who would be the fools that there would be fooled, are fake comments pro or non-pro the neocat?
father ariel, what does she think?
https://www.vaticannews.va/it/papa/news/2019-09/papa-incoraggia-cammino-neocatecumenale.html
Scusi, but what I think?
E’ Perhaps an act of solemn papal magisterium? E’ maybe a motu proprio? E’ perhaps a pronouncement of the infallible magisterium?
No.
Soon said: I do not think even, because I do not care anything, if the Holy Father said two good words for the occasion heretic Kiko and Father Mario Pezzi.
Ariel S. Levi di Gualdo
Poor you… Carlo 1 and Carlo 2. And all your “siblings” teste di “carlo” as you!
how much pride in your words! Giving an idiot to a minister of God! But by what authority?
You who insulted a priest! What does the guardian angel to the right to extend respect and reverence! Butter!?!?
Your comments have demonic nature.
there is no other explanation!
You could never read this book!And if you began to read it,after the first 20 pages,if the Holy Spirit will enlighten,You would understand that the path that you have done so far has been wasted time and would you turn to crowd the churches and in that before the genuflettervi piece of bread you relegated to nothing but which is none other than the King of Kings!
How much time…money and wasted words!
But God will scatter … like chaff before the wind!
È solo questione di tempo!
Father Ariel Force! The lori insulti..la your strength!
We pray for you and especially for these carlo heads….
Besides the insane…Unfortunately…They do not know they!
Dear father Ariel, I'm sorry if he sees enemies even where there are no, and I understand his diplomatic answer: I like instead of Don Bruno Fini response (sopra: 24 September 2019 Everyone 1:22), but I doubt serve in some, given the directors of which has deliberately surrounded our Holy Father.
Actually I do not even know for sure if it was the Holy Father to say those two good words for the occasion all'Arguello.
All that was published serially comes from a “Neocatechumenal press release” and we know how they are adept at distorting the words in their favor…
I do not think certain that the Pope scomoderebbe to rectify, if they had disclosed no relevant things. He paused with Viganò (not by the merits), let alone if not silent for a press release dell'Arguello.
The problem, like always, They are the gullible Neocatechumenal, that always take at face value what comes from the lips of their leader. zero critical Sense. On this much he has counted the charismatic leaders, once “circumcised the reason”…
father ariel, perhaps he did not even realize, but it makes an immense service to the Church, with courage and fortitude.
I am most grateful, I pray for her and support in the difficult battle…
Thank you.
a Carlo 1 e 2
I've seen so many like you, good only to insult and get personal. As for arguments, zero. As always with you, incapable of independent thought.
Nothing on heresies, nothing about liturgical abuses, nothing the ignorant arrogance of the catechists, nothing on megalomania Sankiko esorciccio. Nothing, like always. There even notice how much you are ridiculous, accusing emergency responders to do so anonymously. And you? Your name is Charles and called 1 e 2 di cognome?
Significant affirmation “Think to convince us that it is no sin to a priest row?” A priest, egregi 1 e 2, He puts it in only the bishop row, certainly not ignorant laymen and opinionated as the most fanatical neocat. People like you is a great example of how you become the so-called Way. Maybe in the next edition Ariel could do to add to your post being further demonstration of the Way a sect, because it reduces the followers in the same way.
However, courage! A nice round dance neocat, you lugubre canzoncina kikiana, maybe even an exorcism of Sankiko esorciccio and you will feel like new, ready for many, many other tithes and collections!
Dearest Father Ariel I am an assiduous reader of his writings, and I think she's an intelligent person and prepared. I believe, however, also, in the light of the responses which gives that it lacks an indispensable gift for a Christian: Holy humility of Christ.
It is then in his remarks should moderate the use of a full of scurrilous words vocabulary that is not to say to a man of God.
Dear Paola,
thank you and I assure that I will try to perfect as closely as possible in the holy virtue of humility. To better thank you to the bottom of this valuable teaching, I enclose two excerpts from the epistles of the Apostle Paul Blessed, some of them with them which is very welcome:
"As in all churches of the saints, the women keep silent in the assemblies because it is not allowed to speak; but should be subordinate, as the law also says. If they want to learn something, question their husbands at home, it is improper for a woman to speak in church " [The Cor 14, 34-35].
"I do not permit a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man; rather it be in silence " [The Tm 2, 12].
How to teach the best commentators and the Holy Fathers of the Church, with these words, the Blessed Apostle, intended to establish clear roles and clarify that it is not the role of women teach the Apostles let alone take them back to the public before the meeting, even if they had been in error, because the subversion of roles, still he would have gone a far greater error.
Ariel S. Levi di Gualdo
there. The wind tunic reached the top!!
What a fool.
… and you knew what's, sotto la “tonaca al vento”: all the undoubted attributes to dispute theological and doctrinal level, without any fear, the most poisonous heretical movement in the entire history of the contemporary Church.
I reject the imbecile to sender.
Dear Idiot, what you have under his cassock know. Avoid these scurrilous meanness barracks.
You came out for what they really are and on which I personally never had any doubts.
Meanwhile the Pope, Oh sorry…OUR Pope, received Kiko once again blessing the Neocatechumenal your face.
Oh I forgot……Popes are misinformed….
But what bad luck…..per 5 Sometimes God chooses Popes uninformed….Bah…..
Dear insulter,
if the reigning Pontiff gave a peck on the tip of the nose to Kiko and say that it is the person most vigorous and nice that exists in the world, to me personally, come cattolico e come sacerdote, would not mind an emeritus fife, nor prevent me from criticizing in an entirely legitimate crasse the heresies of the Neocatechumenal Way.
you know why?
For the simple fact that the peck on the tip of the nose is not binding on either the bishops, nor the priests nor the body of the faithful to an act of unquestioned faith.
You would really be able to confuse and groped to pass a banana with the blue label Ciquita for a dogma of the Catholic faith, something no, the most lovable and cultured monkeys of African reserves, would never.
But you will.
I point also that I do not use at all “meanness scurrilous barracks”, because I am not the “santa” Carmen hernadez he is saying “dick, dick, dick!” even during Masses resonances were made while she did not like; and do not talk about Carmen that inside the classroom liturgical smoked during Mass. I said to his companion that he insulted me. And this is not called “scurrilous”, It called self-defense.
Not so alter the facts proven by the history of comments and responses.
Ariel S. Levi di Gualdo
… a moment, try to understand what they are actually writing these authentic mentally deranged. I try to make a short summary:
1. sopra, certo Tony, comments mocking the priestly robe of Father Ariel and calls him publicly idiot;
2. Father follows Ariel, that being half Roman and half Tuscan responds in tone hilar insult, to tell the truth without any vulgarity, but just without any vulgarity;
3. He follows the Father's answer certain Claudio Ariel, giving you an idiot to turn to Father Ariel, She begins to scream like a virgin outraged accusing Father Ariel (I repeat that it is taken twice idiot), have even given a reply “scurrilous” and even with “Language barracks”.
Good, find ultras neocatecumenali, my present: I too am a priest idiot. On the contrary, a me, when I was pastor of a large parish, your beloved brothers, They screamed in his face “asshole” inside the church when I was a few meters from the tabernacle.
It was then that I realized what kind of danger you are sick people: manipulators, liars, false and able to alter the most obvious reality of the facts in your face.
Claudio and Tony,
I am a military chaplain 25 years of Army service.
Come take an idiot “a free” a me, then I recite them myself, all five mysteries of the Holy Rosary, come on … come on … I the “Language barracks” I know him really, and those like you, use it, It is a Christian moral duty.
“By their fruits ye shall know them. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs from thistles?” (Mt 7.16)
If you are a fruit of neocat, It has appeared that the road is not a good tree?
Yup, lei è davvero inquietante. Her words “mettere in riga un prete” sono inquietanti e diaboliche.
Ma lei chi pensa di essere? Nel suo commento precedente ha affermato che Don Ariel sarebbe alla ricerca di gloria, quando invece proprio le parole di Don Ariel in risposta ad un altro lettore mostrano il contrario. Don Ariel infatti non ha chiesto udienza al papa per regalargli il suo libro e sperare chissà quali promozioni, come fanno tanti. Don Ariel è tutt’altro che superbo. Ma voi neocat. avete difficoltà a capirlo, perché non sapete cosa è la vera umiltà.
Mrs. Paola, IL DEMONIO VA SGRIDATO (vedasi esorcismi) SE NO PRENDE IL SOPRAVVENTO E NON VA VIA.
If I can answer on behalf of Charles, the quote about the cardinal sin is “meravigliosa”; think to scare us? Think to convince us that it is no sin to a priest row?? ma per favore…this only works with his followers.
Now could you please help me when he says “misinterpretations” ……on this page, and his book is full she says….because of the weakness shown by recent Popes…..
Now I interpret her this statement, please, because I just can not do it!
Do not quote me is to please the Gospels, I repeat that I belong not to his anti-conciliar sect!
Last thing: It is wonderful when he writes ” Finally, I leave to the readers to assess the extent indeed disturbing a person who posts comments like that ..” I would be disturbing?
But maybe you're not the clique-mail names and surnames of anonymity?
With all due respect, it's like being at the hairdresser, with the difference that in this case the people you see in your face….
You are all equal….Paladin No.1 Tim Rohr is the confirmation…. years of struggle against the Trail and then……boom…accused of domestic violence….she do not…
This his tirade neokatetika It is totally out of place.
I objected to Charles a fact: he allows you to post a harsh critique of a book 315 pages without having absolutely articulated bed, But after taking only two words from the back cover, which he attempted to use to launch a public act of accusing the author.
E’ this has been invited to respond. Instead, before this question, she arrives in a confused and terribly ungrammatical part on a tangent, He changes the subject and does not respond on the merits, according to the established style neokaketiko.
I repeat then the question: she, read the 315 book pages? because if you do not read them, she does not have the right nor to insult or to contest the content that does not know.
Look, it is very easy to answer: read the 315 book pages, or not?
Ariel S. Levi di Gualdo
Noto sympathy with the release of yet another book against the Neocatechumenal Way.
It is obvious that I am in a totally environment influenced by clericalism and traditionalism but I want to also express my opinion.
The assertion….weakness shown by recent Popes, It will set his face as a total discomunione with the Church; already this would be enough to abandon this blog.
But your blindness led by reputed to stop there certainly glory; especially the author of the book (talare al vento) with his hunger for glory, which obviously it will be impossible to fill, seeks his “slice of the market” four cats between anti-Pope who claim to be the sole possessor of Truth; since the Popes in recent decades have been misinformed, stoned, diverted by strong powers, weak, preticelli country, etc., etc….
So this book, It will have the effect of to List &Co the cosmic void since it is a transcript of a video of a famous prelate relegated to the Diocese of Canicattí to manifest ignorance.
Thank God the Neocatechumenal Way is an inspiration of the Virgin Mary and against this were…
If there is an ignorant here this is you, that does not fail to inform the public and sensational evidence.
The book in question is made up of 315 pages and is full of documents, on which is built strictly.
You have read and analyzed the book?
And please: do not say that does not need to read it, why then, all’ignoranza, He would join the queen mother of all the deadly sins, which it is the pride.
I can not allow to extract two words from the back cover and to dare to misinterpretations cutting “magic words” related to the weakness of the last Popes.
In this regard I wish to inform it that the first pontiff in history who showed weakness and was recognized as such, Simon was called Peter, chosen by Christ, God himself.
If the weakness of the first of many Supreme Pontiffs weak that the Church had she does not know, then I point out where you can find chronicle told in this human weakness: in the four synoptic Gospels and in John's Gospel.
Li studies. Perhaps you discover that contain more wisdom than they instead contain heretical catechesis of Kiko and Carmen, rigorously tested and documented in my text.
I leave finally to the Readers assess the extent indeed disturbing of a subject that mail such comments by taking a complex and articulated – I repeat that he has not read – three words written on the back cover, but then it is these, those that the Supreme Pontiff John Paul II called "the indubitable good fruit" of the Neocatechumenal Way
Ariel S. Levi di Gualdo, presbyter
I wanted to know if Father Ariel is planning to deliver ,of course directly in his hands otherwise might not receive it,Also his book to Pope Francis . Thank you
No, dear Reader.
I would not dare seek a Supreme Pontiff, because I am a priest trained in the old ways: The subject has no reason to seek the monarch, It is presented by the monarch only if the monarch does try and call.
I've never been called either by Paul VI, nor John Paul II, nor by Benedict XVI, nor Francis I., therefore I have no reason to approach.
Someone asked me: “But you would not like to see the Pope to give him glory?”. I answered: “But I pay homage every day, mentioning in the canon of the Mass his name”.
It is not my habit even send free books to the Supreme Pontiffs. I've always considered a useless act of vanity and presumption, usually practiced, over the last three pontificates, many people who pawed to become bishops; and many have become, by dint of stomping, under the pontificate of Giovanni Paolo II, di Benedetto XVI e di Francesco I.
Then, although the accounts of the State of Vatican City today are in red and the reigning pope is a poor for the poor, reputo che 25 Euros to buy a book should resent, while i, to write for free, I have no money, otherwise we could not just print books.
So, if anything he cared, that if it does buy.
Ariel S. Levi di Gualdo, presbyter
praiseworthy Thought.
However, after reading the following article by Vatican News, I thought that a reading of his book, al Papa farebbe molto bene 🙂
https://www.vaticannews.va/it/papa/news/2019-09/papa-incoraggia-cammino-neocatecumenale.html
Gentile Attilio,
I agree with her because I read from top to bottom throughout the book. E’ truly a work of the highest standard and historical depth, theological and pastoral.
Possibly, we could inviarne, a complimentary copy to Pope, if anything, as a present from the many pastors who were victims of the worst bullying perpetrated on them by the Neocatechumenal.
Thanks Don Ariel !!!!
Book that can not miss in my small library.
I hope this helps to make the work more clearly as possible on the TRUE nature of the Neocatechumenal Way.
Don Ariel puts his face, us the desire to know and learn about the REALITY’ of this “movement” UNEXPECTED always.
LUCA
Today I order!
Beautiful book.
The buy to learn more about a very lively reality in our parishes. In Palermo I am almost everywhere and does not seem to be held back by the Diocese.
I hope that this book will make a lot of noise and clarity.
Essere “lively” It is not always index “good spiritual health”.
Last Easter, the archbishop of Palermo EXPRESSLY had forbidden them to celebrate the Vigil on their behalf.
And they that have done? They moved in Monreale.
This is the Neocatechumenal Way
Lady, certain that it is not.
On the last Passover I remember that there was half a decree that forbade all triduums except those in the Parish.
Choosing which I considered meaningless, why not included because the decrease the number of triduums even in neighborhoods with churches distant from each other. I know seniors who stayed at home etc etc.
I do not remember that it was a targeted decision against Neocat
Dear Attilio,
it provides this comprehensive example: Diocese of Rome, Easter 2019.
the Vicariate sent a communication before Easter to all religious institutions informing that the Easter Triduum could only be celebrated in parishes. In tal modo, the religious who for centuries have their annexed institutions to historic churches where for centuries have celebrated all the sacred rites, they should take and go to the nearest parish.
readable text WHO
Since the text of this Directive “He dares say”:
"It's not the double celebration of the Paschal Triduum it is eligible, or part of it, within the same parish community, if not for pastoral reasons proven '.
That immediately ran from Spain to Rome Kiko Arguello affirmed that shortly after his note triumphalist arrogance:
"We have a beautiful gift: approval to celebrate the Easter Vigil. Cardinal Angelo De Donatis, papal vicar of the Diocese of Rome, It published the document of the Episcopal Council, and in the cover letter he says claws joint celebrations of the Easter Triduum make parishes “the beating heart” the diocesan liturgical life, while other churches and oratories could “rediscover their own charism as privileged places for personal prayer and celebrating-tion of reconciliation “.Il Documento(to the point "f")dà, But, the ability to movements and ecclesial realities "that approved by the ecclesiastical statute they consider appropriate for their formation process and catechetical, or in the case of a meeting too many,"Celebrate" Easter Eve with their communities, They can do so with the permission of the parish priest also in places suitable to the exercise of Divine Worship…» [see documents WHO pag. 3].
To make that concession to Neocatekiko, the Vicariate had to renege in practice that provision, because otherwise they would have had to deal with religious communities, in certain metropolitan historic churches, the triduum not celebrated fifty years as Neocatekiko, but for five hundred years.
But the Neocatechumenate are cited:
“The use of the rite of the washing of the feet, nelle comunità del Cammino Neocatecumenale, It is not to be rejected if it occurs in the context different from that of Holy Thursday, provided that it maintains its meaning to be lived in the penitential season of Lent.”
Except of course if they are cheated because the washing of the feet on them does not have a penitential character, But say “mutual forgiveness”.
Having said that she can have her complaints of that decree: but the Neocatechumenal have evidenetemente the problems cited as happily have moved to another diocese in order to make the vigil as they say (maybe in some hotel). E’ questo il problema
Finally, this book came out!
A book dictated by the spirit of truth of a man as the father Ariel defending our Lord Jesus and his living word from the continuous heresies that constantly attack his church!
His great courage will be rewarded in heaven… all brothers and we pray for his father because Ariel, surely, It will be attacked even harder!
do not leave it alone!
Bought can not wait to read it. Thank you and congratulations Father Ariel for his courage.
Frilù
I started reading this book enjoyable, rich in examples and stories written in a unique style that helps and even invites the reader to penetrate a tough subject like theology and dogma ... that in itself is incredible!
But then there 's the magic touch that I have already enjoyed "And Satan came triune": how did you manage to create that that touching the cover gives feelings between velvety and rubber ...?
However, the comments of Neocat above seem to me to be possessed; if they are in good faith and if this path was the bearer of good fruits as peace and humility should a brotherly dialogue with theologians and pastors in charge of souls who admonish them; It seems to see them foaming with rage and poisonous drivel to his mouth ... mah!
Gentile Angelo,
if we make a compliment (meritatissimo!) to Father Ariel, I do not think we can be accused of partisanship, because they follow in these pages dozens of insulting comments from the armed wing of the army kikones.
This is my objective criticism: be simultaneously theologians, writers and storytellers is not easy. There are theologians (even at the highest level) who incomprehensible languages, those writers who are not and that are riddled with clichés, and storytellers who can not tell their own.
Then there are those who have a lack of these qualities, but the other two, or have theological and literary skills but they can not tell.
Any Father Ariel enemy with sufficient minimum intelligence (on flying kikones “Cazzari”) It should recognize that it is very gifted intellectually, It is a theologian of great depth, He is a writer and a senior writer. To all this, then, It also adds the legal sagacity, Why …ah, and as if it manages to walk the tightrope without cutting and without giving rise to clerical reprimands! And you do not touch the razor on which he walks, Why, his, It would not do anything, who touches, instead, It would cut the veins.
If this was not a holy priest of God pen, It would be a dangerous pen worthy of the worst devil!
With grace and elegance uncommon, and with the painful tear to the eye (undoubtedly sincere) He explained and demonstrated that Pope John Paul II acted imprudently, At Neocatechumenals, and without listening to the advice and entreaties addressed to him all the best specialists of the Roman Curia, proved stubborn and deaf.
At this point we must understand, one part, we have the kikones attempting pedestrian in a manner of speaking: “Pope John Paul II is holy, We greeted us and approved, so our Way is holy”, Father Ariel other than with a theo-literary-narrative sophistication explains … Gentlemen, see that the saints have wrong and make mistakes, because no saint has ever been sought perfection and the human is exempt from error and error of assessment. To then throw down the deadly attack … except changing otherwise the saints in fetish object of idolatry.
… zzo! And now those who denies? The Holy See? Yup, but to deny it before should redo the Catholic doctrine from top to bottom, and I do not think it's worth, in particular to give in the Armata Brancaleone Kikones.
He brought, il Padre Ariel, lashes the blood right and left, without being able to be called in any way by any ecclesiastical authority, which should forward all revolutionize the concept of sanctity and declare solemnly acknowledges that the saints, as such, they are perfect, and that their every choice and decision, It should be considered an article of faith, including recognition “purely administrative” Army of Brancaleone Kikones.
Congratulations to kikones, if they hope in this, by the competent authorities of the Holy See, several of them invoked, in their rambling following comments on these pages.
A book, so, tasty and wonderful in such a terribly refined mind has composed the entire puzzle, then she puts it under glass and framed the public exposure in this book, It missed us only to place ourselves under the label: “you assholes!”.
Kikones, incazzatevi what you want: Father Ariel beautifully fucked you, but just great, ve lo dico, for little or nothing worth, as emeritus professor of church history at an Italian university faculty of political science, where I taught for 40 year old.
Roberto (since his retirement in the Colli Bolognesi)
Ha molta ragione sui neocat! I loro commenti danno retta a padre Ariel, non è possibile esprimere tali sentimenti avvelenati nei confronti di un prete della Chiesa di Cristo! Si comportano da bravi eretici ????